• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Is There A Leica Tele-Elmarit-M F/2.8 Lens Modification For Flare?

Certain Exposures

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 31, 2023
Messages
321
Location
USA
Format
Analog
I've read a few comments online that suggest the Leica Tele-Elmarit-M F/2.8 lens has its awful flare problem due to internal reflections. Has anyone ever offered a service to modify the lens and correct this?

I have tried a lens hood (IUFOO). However, the hood was not effective. This lens is so sensitive to bright light anywhere near it. I cannot see through the lens while using a rangefinder so it is a challenge to provide the right amount of shade with my stretched palm.

Please share if you have a 'trick' for judging just the right angle to cover the lens besides common sense!

I do use a B+W UV filter with it. I wonder if that makes the problem much worse?
 

MFstooges

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
959
Format
35mm
I can only assume such modification will cost the same as the new lens.
 

koraks

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
27,723
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
Certain Exposures said:
Has anyone ever offered a service to modify the lens and correct this?
Click to expand...
If there were, surely Leica would have designed it properly to begin with.

Such flare problems are usually not a matter of "dab a little black paint there and there and it'll be better." This involves all lens surfaces inside the assembly and their coatings, as well as lens geometry. Fixing this issue would involve redesigning and rebuilding the lens from the ground up.

I.e., there is actually a fix: buy a different lens that doesn't have this problem.


Certain Exposures said:
I do use a B+W UV filter with it. I wonder if that makes the problem much worse?
Click to expand...
It will surely not help.
 

loccdor

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 12, 2024
Messages
2,945
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
Looks like it's part of the character of that lens.

There are situations where it can contribute to a picture but it's hard to predict in advance when using a rangefinder.


I like these. I think it's going to work better for portraiture or subject photography than landscape.

The 4 elements in 4 groups with a single coating makes it sound similar to my Jupiter-11 135mm f/4 which has those same characteristics and also is prone to flare.

I took this picture with that one: you can see some flare in it.



I think you should either try to work within its limitations and use it for what its best for, or decide the lens isn't for you and get something else.
 

Kodachromeguy

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
2,177
Location
Washington
Format
Multi Format
I used a Tele-Elmarit for 25 years and do not recall any unusual flare. Does your lens have the internal degradation of glue/fog/haze? Many Tele-Elmarits suffered some type of decay. It was, I read, not repairable.
 
OP
OP

Certain Exposures

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 31, 2023
Messages
321
Location
USA
Format
Analog
koraks said:
I.e., there is actually a fix: buy a different lens that doesn't have this problem.
Click to expand...

Bummer! The lens is decent otherwise. I may have to.
loccdor said:
I think you should either try to work within its limitations and use it for what its best for, or decide the lens isn't for you and get something else.
Click to expand...

Nice frame there at the end. I may get a lens more flare resistant someday despite how much I enjoy this one. I like to be deliberate about introducing flares. That is too difficult for me with this particular lens on a film camera.

Has anyone done a great job of testing out the flare on the Voigtlander 90mm F/2.8 VM? So far I have not come across enough sample images to judge.

Kodachromeguy said:
I used a Tele-Elmarit for 25 years and do not recall any unusual flare. Does your lens have the internal degradation of glue/fog/haze? Many Tele-Elmarits suffered some type of decay. It was, I read, not repairable.
Click to expand...

@Kodachromeguy Could you share some backlit portraits you took in bright daylight with your lens? So far the comments online suggest this one has a reputation for flaring. Interior day images in locations with large reflective windows would be good too.

I will share if/when I get confirmation from the model or time to reshoot examples.

My copy's glass looks decent enough under a flashlight. I can share photos later.
 
Last edited:

MarkS

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
545
The flare made that lens useless for me, and eventually I sold it. I'd struggled against the flare for a long time, and eventually decided that it was caused by the visible "hammer-tone" finish on the diaphragm blades. That at least was partially shiny, unlike any other lens diaphragm in my experience. I didn't really bother to test that idea- I suppose if that were the case, there would be no flare at f/2.8. It was beautifully compact, and mechanically well-made, but couldn't deliver the results I wanted.
 

Kodachromeguy

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
2,177
Location
Washington
Format
Multi Format

I sold the Tele-Elmarit lens in 2005. I would need to look at old negatives or Kodachromes in my archives (stuff). I did not use that 90 much over the years. In contrast, recently, my 90mm f/4 Elmar has been busy. And I just bought a 90mm f/2.5 Elmarit.
Cheers
 

beemermark

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
924
Format
4x5 Format
I never had a problem with mine. I don't understand your comment "I cannot see through the lens while using a rangefinder so it is a challenge to provide the right amount of shade with my stretched palm." You don't look through the lens on a RF camera.
 

Craig

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
2,572
Location
Calgary
Format
Multi Format
I read it as he was attempting to shade the lens with his hand, but as you don't look through the lens, was unable to tell if his hand was getting in the frame or not, or if the shading was effective or not.
 
OP
OP

Certain Exposures

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 31, 2023
Messages
321
Location
USA
Format
Analog
Yes, I am afraid this is the sign to follow your footsteps.

Craig said:
I read it as he was attempting to shade the lens with his hand, but as you don't look through the lens, was unable to tell if his hand was getting in the frame or not, or if the shading was effective or not.
Click to expand...
@beemermark , Craig nailed it. THat's what I meant.

@Kodachromeguy pull out some slides for us some day! I would love to see what it can do on Kodachrome.
 

GregY

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
4,078
Location
Alberta
Format
Large Format
I've had a number of tele-elmarits from the fat one to the thin one. I always used the #12575 metal hood and never had an undue flare issues. Are there any signs of haze?
 

Kodachromeguy

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
2,177
Location
Washington
Format
Multi Format
Certain Exposures said:
@Kodachromeguy pull out some slides for us some day! I would love to see what it can do on Kodachrome.
Click to expand...

As requested, 90m Tele-Elmarit frames on Kodachrome 25 film.




Grove Street, Vicksburg, Mississippi




Wood cottages on Pearl street, Vicksburg (taken from the railroad tracks)





Vicksburg National Military Park in the fog (Leica M3 tripod-mounted)

Beware, these have been scanned and then resized to display on a computer monitor through the APUG servers. I hesitate to say there is some special "look" to these pictures. I have thousands of Kodachrome slides. They will never all get scanned. Sigh.....
 

Kodachromeguy

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
2,177
Location
Washington
Format
Multi Format
The Tele-Elmarit was a convenient travel lens because it was compact.




Athinios Port, Thira, Greece
 
OP
OP

Certain Exposures

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 31, 2023
Messages
321
Location
USA
Format
Analog
GregY said:
I've had a number of tele-elmarits from the fat one to the thin one. I always used the #12575 metal hood and never had an undue flare issues. Are there any signs of haze?
Click to expand...

@GregY I will check again. I don't recall seeing any on the front element.

@Kodachromeguy Nice frames there. Thanks for sharing. Those photos avoid the lens' weakness.
 
OP
OP

Certain Exposures

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 31, 2023
Messages
321
Location
USA
Format
Analog
I found a video that matches my experience with this lens. However, the presenter is talking about another Leica lens - the Leica 90mm Elmarit-M.

From 2:14 - 2:25 he shows the exact flare I observe in backlit scenarios. Later in the video he also shows a hard flare I experience in some scenarios like his Buffalo frame (02:55 - 3:01). At 10:49 the purple flare over the groom's face is exactly like the flare I am whining about.

Someone in the comments made the following claim:




Those examples in the video also match @loccdor 's post with image examples in scenarios that would motivate the flaring:


Is this an inherent characteristic of both lenses, a flaw in manufacturing consistency, or some unidentified defect specific to each copy due to age? I am curious about the inconsistency among users.

The glass on my lens looks great and I do not observe similar flares with other lenses. Also, I do use a lens hood. I am able to 'shoot around' the flare and avoid it with careful positioning of the light. I could post examples of images like @Kodachromeguy 's without flare; however, the characteristic is still there.

The video:

 
Last edited:

loccdor

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 12, 2024
Messages
2,945
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
Yes, it is inherent to both lenses. Unfortunately with a film rangefinder, you won't know if it's helping or hurting your image until you snap and develop it.
 

RezaLoghme

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 6, 2024
Messages
1,654
Location
Europe
Format
Medium Format
That model is known for flaring; luckily there many other 90mm alternatives from Leica.

Even the lowly Elmar-R 90/4 is quite good.

BTW shouldnt this thread be in the "Rangefinder" section?
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
55,543
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register