Is the L/F for the more Mature

[panastasia]

I moved up to MF with a 2x3 view camera because that was the largest format I could enlarge and I don't care for prints larger than 14x17". I chose a view camera for all the control it gave me (camera movements) and loved the process. I later bought my RB for more speed and even later bought a 645 for light weight. For me LF is synonymous with contact prints and 4x5 would be too small - not a far cry from 2x3 enlargements - so if there's a LF camera in my future it would be a 5x7 (minimum) or 8x10 - for contact prints. I would imagine that large format negatives are difficult to keep flat in enlargers (I hate glass negative carriers) and a 14x17 camera would be too big for me. Money and maturity had little to do with my decisions, athough I think my age is now mature. I'm 61.

Paul

I replied to my own post because I don't know how to edit it a day later. I was mixing cm with inches (it was getting late when I posted previously). I must have confused those who read it: 6x8 (cm) should have been 2x3". I'm awake now.

 

[Wyno]

I bought my first 4x5 (a Nagaoka) when I was 24. 3 years ago I upgraded to a Shen Hao 4x5 (and really appreciated how light the Nag was), then two years ago I upgraded to a Tachihara 8x10 which I love.
Now that I'm 53 I want ot upgrade again to an 11x14 that I want to make myself. By the time I'm 80 I'll have finally got the 20x24 that I really want. LOL
Mike

 

[David Nebenzahl]

So with 20x24, what, do you have to drag along a portable vacuum pump? How else would you keep the film flat?

[whoops, thread drift]

 

[Wyno]

So with 20x24, what, do you have to drag along a portable vacuum pump? How else would you keep the film flat?

Nah, just make sure that you are using good holders. S&S, Lotus, De Golden Busch etc
Mike

 

[mhcfires]

I am nearly 66, have been into photography since I was in high school, I had a Ricoh 6x6. I bought a Topcon RE Super when in Japan in 1968, used it for many years and then drifted away from photography for about ten years. I resurrected the Topcon, and also bought a Mamiya C3, used them for a number of years. About two years ago, I bought a Toyo 45G view camera and have been learning how to use it. I have an interest in old cameras, and I have been restoring an Auto Graflex 3x4. It now has an operational shutter. An interesting camera. My girlfriend can't understand my love of film, she has her digital Nikon, wants that instant gratification you can get from a digital camera. She has been taking photography courses at the local community college, hated the Photo 1 course because it was B&W film only. I will probably enroll this coming fall in Photo 1 and continue with the photo courses. The school has wonderful new darkroom equipment, view cameras for the advanced classes. I am eager to expand my photographic skills now that I am nearly retired. I am hoping to put a darkroom into a corner of my garage. Not sure when that will happen.

 

[greybeard]

Not sure if "LF is for the mature" but it certainly favors the possessor of a long attention span, a capacity for deferred gratification, and some appreciation for solitude. These things usually, but not always, come with age.

My first sheet film images were made with a borrowed 3-1/4 x 4-1/4 Linhof at about age 13; I got my first 4x5 (an RB Graflex with plate holders) at age 17, and my first view camera (Calumet CC400) at age 19---and I still have and use the last two!

I just turned 60 a few months back, so I fervently hope that LF is really for the mature; it would mean that I still have something to look forward to

 

[mhcfires]

Not sure if "LF is for the mature" but it certainly favors the possessor of a long attention span, a capacity for deferred gratification, and some appreciation for solitude. These things usually, but not always, come with age.

My first sheet film images were made with a borrowed 3-1/4 x 4-1/4 Linhof at about age 13; I got my first 4x5 (an RB Graflex with plate holders) at age 17, and my first view camera (Calumet CC400) at age 19---and I still have and use the last two!

I just turned 60 a few months back, so I fervently hope that LF is really for the mature; it would mean that I still have something to look forward to

I may have gotten older, but I refuse to grow up!

 

[Black Dog]

Me too!..I shot my first LF images aged 16 and I've used 5x4 regularly since college just over 12 years ago.Anyway as Aaliyah said "age ain't nothing but a number"!

 

[slumry]

There is nothing like a 8x10 or larger contact print. Nothing.

I wish this comment had not been made, I had promised my spouse that if she let me buy a 4X5 camera that I would never ever consider an 8X10 camera on pain of severe marital disruption. Well just to checkout the statement, I started printing some 4X5 contact prints and the itch has been planted to go larger. One way or the other this is going to get expensive.

 

[keithwms]

Bear in mind that you can dupe to larger negs... just one way to get into large contacts without getting into larger shooting gear. Hey it was good enough for Edward Weston.... Assuming that it's done carefully, I'll claim that you can hop one generation (e.g. 4x5 -> 5x7) or a bit more with no meaningful losses.

 

[jp80874]

I'll claim that you can hop one generation (e.g. 4x5 -> 5x7) or a bit more with no meaningful losses.

Do you mean image quality losses or marital?

John

 

[keithwms]

lol One generation shouldn't get you in trouble with the law. Two, well... that's not legal in most States.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I'm 37, tried 4x5 and hated it, despite the superior quality. Medium format was the ticket, now I'm using 35mm more again. To me, format is completely irrelevant. I don't even care if people use digital or film. I know what I like and it changes all the time.
There are times when I love to take my 5x7 out, and I admit that sometimes I dream about a 12x20 or 7x17 ultra large format camera.
I think it's about state of mind, what the subject matter is, how fast it moves, and that has little to do with maturity.

- Thomas

 

[jp80874]

That Thomas is such a slow learner. We try to bring him along, but he just regresses, time and time again. I shouldn't say it, but I think he is going to end up with a Minox after all.

John

PS, You did notice the back brace that goes with the 7x17 didn't you?

 

[EASmithV]

Well, I shoot both 4x5 and 8x10, so I guess the answer is no.

 

[keithwms]

Heh, same age as Thomas and my favourite format is 5x7, go figure

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I shoot 4x5 and 8x10 and I am not mature at all.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Errhhh, I actually have a Minox...

I was trying to avoid something like the brace you use, yes. I admire those that have the patience to use such a big camera, and also those that can afford it. Methinks film is pretty spendy, no?

I guess we're all different.

That Thomas is such a slow learner. We try to bring him along, but he just regresses, time and time again. I shouldn't say it, but I think he is going to end up with a Minox after all.

John

PS, You did notice the back brace that goes with the 7x17 didn't you?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Maybe some day I'll be older than you?

Heh, same age as Thomas and my favourite format is 5x7, go figure

 

[keithwms]

Maybe some day I'll be older than you?

By taking up 7x17?

 

[jp80874]

Thomas Bertilsson;784053]Errhhh, I actually have a Minox...

Thomas,
That is how I got into photography with a Minox that had been given to my father. I submitted architectural shots taken with a Minox with a paper in college and turned it into a three year job building a teaching slide library with equipment Johns Hopkins gave me.

I was trying to avoid something like the brace you use, yes. I admire those that have the patience to use such a big camera, and also those that can afford it. Methinks film is pretty spendy, no?

At a party I talked to a man who had shot 3400 digital pictures in Hawaii in four days. I had shot four pictures in the same four days in my neighborhood. In amazement I asked how many he had printed. He said none. I said I had printed all four. Even though I bracket I think my ratio was better. The film is not very expensive if the results merit using it.

I guess we're all different.
Maybe not.

John

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

According to some, that may well be the case!

But who knows what the future holds. I could see myself doing my own emulsion, coating glass plates and using that in the field. Probably more likely 8x10 though. 7x17 glass would be awfully large and heavy.

By taking up 7x17?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Interesting indeed. I find that when I go somewhere specifically to shoot I usually use about six rolls of 120 per day. That's 72 exposures. My hit rate of keepers is usually about 1.5-2 shots per roll and I normally end up printing about three negs per roll and I scan all of them to proof them.

I like the idea of a large camera. I just don't think my photographs would be any better. At least that seams to be the case with smaller sheet formats like 4x5 and 5x7. I am more pleased with what my Hasselblad and 35mm Canon gear produces.

I will admit that I haven't practiced as much with the sheet film cameras. In my days of shooting I probably have only shot about 500 sheets, while I've a lot more negatives, even a lot more rolls of 120 than that.

One problem I have is that I have more negatives that I know will make good prints than I have time to print. That's a very frustrating aspect for me. So that's the only case where view camera is better. Less exposures.

Back in 2003 when I got my first sheet film camera, a Crown Graphic 4x5, I had progressively gravitated toward larger film. I thought I was on the path to 8x10 and possibly 11x14. But no matter how I tried I couldn't get along with the, to me, counterintuitive approach to composition and setup procedure, and I went the other way instead - back to smaller formats. And that's where I'm at now. 6x6 via Hasselblad, ZeroImage pinhole, and Holga, and 35mm via a Canon Elan 7n, a Pentax KX, lots of fine prime lenses, and a ZeroImage 35mm as well. That keeps me happy and wanting absolutely nothing more as far as image quality goes. I really believe that it isn't about the camera, and ever since I've had that realization I feel much more free and less confined. I'm not cornered by choice of camera anymore. It's all about the image, the message, the content, the emotion, and the mood.
To me, coming to that realization, to find what equipment and what approach suits your style - THAT is maturity as a photographer. There is no better or worse, just different.

Maybe not.

John

 

[DanielStone]

It is "for" anyone who decides to use it, but I do think that you will benefit the most from it if you approach it differently than 35mm, and use it for the situations where it will help you the most; not try to force it to do the job of tools that are better suited to certain purposes. I think that lots of compositional and technical experience helps, as does quite a degree of restraint, patience, and forethought, but not necessarily "maturity". On the other hand, shooting large format is perhaps the best way to learn these things. Quite a paradox.

One way I think of it is in terms of emulsion cost and lab costs. For the average print, I want to spend no more than what I consider a reasonable amount of money. For me, when using 4x5 or smaller, if I can get one print that is just how I want it out of every 80 sq. in. of emulsion, I am happy. I often get more. Sometimes I get nothing! (With 5x7 and 8x10 especially, as you only have two shots with 5x7 and one shot with 8x10, I cut myself a little slack!) My general goal is to spend no more than $25 per good print, however. Sometimes I go over, and sometimes I go under. It averages out. For instance, a roll of HP5 is four bucks, so on the road from camera to print, I have $21 to play with to try and get that print. If I can't do it, I probably screwed something up. You don't need to play these games, but I find it is a good self check and self-disciplinary practice. So, when I shoot 4x5 HP5, at one dollar per sheet, I shoot with the mindset that for any given shoot, I am going to shoot four shots for every nine that I would shoot on 35mm; one quarter as many shots. I may even try to shoot half as much as this (1/8 the number of 35mm shots) if I will be lab processing; to save money.

I think it would be great if most school programs still focused on large format for at least the first year. It is the way Art Center still does it, but that is a design, technical, and commercial school, not an art school. Large format begins after the first term, in which you take basic photography using 35mm transparency film, and project to share your work. Most work for the next several terms is assigned primarily on large format. They do this not to force people down a large format path for life, but to force students to slow down, pay attention to detail, be deliberate, and to learn a lot about light, composition, depth of field, and how camera positioning and lens selection affect pictures...not to mention frugality and efficiency, given the cost and time consumption of large format.

Brooks makes large format a mandatory basic class, but I don't think they expect you to continue with it as much as does Art Center.

As for another local design school with a photo program, I am not sure what OTIS does.

I believe most schools that are design/commercial oriented rather than art oriented still force students to use large format for *at least* one term...but perhaps not for very much longer, now that a younger generation of instructors raised in the digital age is returning to teach. In my experience, these younger instructors are all extremely eager to do away with analog printing in schools; especially in color. In my experience, they seem to have a very cold and results-oriented approach to photography (achieve your end in any way possible; personal work ethics be damned, and process be damned), and a disgraceful lack of technical knowledge (for college instructors, at any rate).

I have decided to go to the Art Center, I'm located roughly 20 miles from it as i write this. 2F/, you are right. They(Art Center) do have you use 4x5 during the second term, but regretably, people aren't using it as much as they probably should. With all of this new digital technology coming out day after day, people decide that they want the camera to do the thinking for them, or photoshop to piece things together.

I shoot 4x5 for some things, primarily portraits. I am finishing up a series of my family members, and pretty much all of them have stated to me that it is totally different being photographed in such a slow manner.

I want to do commercial work, therefore the view camera is called for mostly as the tool of choice. Even though I love the hybrid workflow of shooting film, then scanning and working in photoshop, there is still that feel that you get when you look at those negs for the first time when they're wet. At least it gives me that sense of satisfaction that I have done something right, from the loading of the holders to the processing of the film.

But in the end, digital will win. The world win turn to digital, and eventually film will be in the history books. As much as I hate to say that, there will always be those that shoot film to shoot film, and those that shoot it because its all they can afford.

Art Center is becoming more digital by the day, but that is because they have a large majority of their photography students dedicated to commercial work. Where digital is expected, not wanted.

But as long as film is made, I will shoot it. That is a promise. Even if it is $10 a sheet. I like the look.

My simple philosophy for my career: Shoot digital for commercial work, film if requested. But shoot film mostly(3/4) for personal.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

What the devil does a "mature mind" have to do with interest in large format? To Prest 400, go for it! Long ago 18 year olds didn't have that enthusiasm to make a big step, and big it is: expect to develop powers of observation, detail, exclusion and concentration, stuff that a digital doesn't give a hoot about. But don't give up on 35mm: it has its uses and it is faster than 5x4. Save the larger format for those really special, contemplative subjects where immediacy or bracketing aren't priorities or important. Enjoy!