Is the L/F for the more Mature

AZLF · Apr 11, 2009

I don't think age "had" anything to do with it. Or maturity in general for anyone of my age group. I'm 57 and the first camera I used in high school photo class was a Speed Graphic at age 14. I was using a Calumet 4x5" mono rail at 18 in Viet Nam for specific types of shots in the building (quanset hut) we used as a studio on Cu Chi base camp. I think that if you started in photography in the 50's and 60's you were very likely to be using a view camera because they were much more prevalent at the time. It wasn't a matter of maturity it was just availability and the ability of the view camera to do so many different types of work. And the relatively low cost of the camera at the time. In 1970 I could buy a Calumet 4x5" view camera camera body new for $120.00 mail order. My Nikormat cost $400.00 stateside and $200.00 in any PX in Viet Nam.

Now is a different story. There are fewer of them being used and available for use. Film costs a lot more and all the attendant costs have risen as well. And fewer people are being taught (as I was) just what a camera really is, i.e a light tight box with a lens and shutter to control the amount and focus of light falling on a light sensitive surface. I see the view camera as the Mark 1 Mod zero basic camera. All variations flow from this basic concept. It takes no special maturity to use one. But it does take and understanding of the photographic process which directs how one is to use the view camera.

These days with costs up and supply down it is little wonder that more older people use them than the young. We generally have more disposable income to spend on such things.But as many posts in this thread have pointed out there are quite a few younger people using view cameras. But I'll bet they do so because they have come to understand what the view camera represents and won't settle for less. That I suppose is a maturity of their photo knowledge but I don't know that it extends into any other areas of their lives. I know it certainly didn't in mine. : )

2F/2F · Apr 11, 2009

AZLF said:
I don't think age "had" anything to do with it. Or maturity in general for anyone of my age group. I'm 57 and the first camera I used in high school photo class was a Speed Graphic at age 14. I was using a Calumet 4x5" mono rail at 18 in Viet Nam for specific types of shots in the building (quanset hut) we used as a studio on Cu Chi base camp. I think that if you started in photography in the 50's and 60's you were very likely to be using a view camera because they were much more prevalent at the time. It wasn't a matter of maturity it was just availability and the ability of the view camera to do so many different types of work. And the relatively low cost of the camera at the time. In 1970 I could buy a Calumet 4x5" view camera camera body new for $120.00 mail order. My Nikormat cost $400.00 stateside and $200.00 in any PX in Viet Nam.

Now is a different story. There are fewer of them being used and available for use. Film costs a lot more and all the attendant costs have risen as well. And fewer people are being taught (as I was) just what a camera really is, i.e a light tight box with a lens and shutter to control the amount and focus of light falling on a light sensitive surface. I see the view camera as the Mark 1 Mod zero basic camera. All variations flow from this basic concept. It takes no special maturity to use one. But it does take and understanding of the photographic process which directs how one is to use the view camera.

These days with costs up and supply down it is little wonder that more older people use them than the young. We generally have more disposable income to spend on such things.But as many posts in this thread have pointed out there are quite a few younger people using view cameras. But I'll bet they do so because they have come to understand what the view camera represents and won't settle for less. That I suppose is a maturity of their photo knowledge but I don't know that it extends into any other areas of their lives. I know it certainly didn't in mine. : )

I agree.

Wade D · Apr 11, 2009

I don't think maturity has anything to do with it. I used 35mm until I was 19. I then bought an old Crown View 4x5 which I still use. For me it was wanting to learn more about the craft and how to take control of the outcome to get the images I see in my mind translated into prints for others to see.

flashgumby · Apr 11, 2009

Taking it a step further - if it's true that LF is for the more mature, the implication is that anyone who chooses anything else is somehow less mature. That does NOT sit well with me, as I'm sure there are plenty of mature photographers around who shoot other formats for various reasons that have nothing to do with maturity.

Since I only shoot 35mm, I mustn't even be weaned yet!!! I haven't even grown up enough to use 645, let alone a 'mature' 4x5!!!

Regards,
Gordon.

Akki14 · Apr 11, 2009

I'm 27 and I've been using 4x5 for a year now. Needed it for cyanotypes.

Ian Grant · Apr 11, 2009

Like others I began using Large Format in my early 20's so I've been maturing using MF & LF, I guess I've virtually phased out of 35mm now and shoot mostly LF.

Ian

markbarendt · Apr 11, 2009

This is a truly important point 2F. Hobbyists can spend whatever they please but anybody trying to actually support themselves on their photographic efforts needs to know where they stand on every roll and needs to have a "game" they play to make it work.

Defining how much cost will be tolerated to produce a given product is essential to good business.

2F/2F said:
One way I think of it is in terms of emulsion cost and lab costs. For the average print, I want to spend no more than what I consider a reasonable amount of money. For me, when using 4x5 or smaller, if I can get one print that is just how I want it out of every 80 sq. in. of emulsion, I am happy. I often get more. Sometimes I get nothing! (With 5x7 and 8x10 especially, as you only have two shots with 5x7 and one shot with 8x10, I cut myself a little slack!) My general goal is to spend no more than $25 per good print, however. Sometimes I go over, and sometimes I go under. It averages out. For instance, a roll of HP5 is four bucks, so on the road from camera to print, I have $21 to play with to try and get that print. If I can't do it, I probably screwed something up. You don't need to play these games, but I find it is a good self check and self-disciplinary practice. So, when I shoot 4x5 HP5, at one dollar per sheet, I shoot with the mindset that for any given shoot, I am going to shoot four shots for every nine that I would shoot on 35mm; one quarter as many shots. I may even try to shoot half as much as this (1/8 the number of 35mm shots) if I will be lab processing; to save money.

Toffle · Apr 11, 2009

As far as maturity goes, one of the greatest compliments I ever recieved was a card from one of my students which read, "When I never grow up, I want to be just like you."

Cheers,

David Nebenzahl · Apr 11, 2009

To answer the OP (original poster)'s query about maturity and large-format use, the first time I ever peered into the ground glass was in my late teens. If there is any question, let me tell you right now: I was not mature then at all. But it was absolutely the right time for me to learn that way of taking pictures.

One can never start using big cameras too early.

Graham.b · Apr 11, 2009

I think one or two people here have taken this the wrong way, it is, has the photo mind matured not the age. But in all there is and has been some very interesting post here. As all ages have and do take part. That is what the OP was all about, was it a i no enough to go forward and try some thing else.

Graham

Prest_400 · Apr 11, 2009

I think that a LF photographer is because he thinks the format will deliver the results that he wants, he can be a nice and mature photo mind as people say, but having kid maturity.
I've not arrived to the 18 years old, but I think that I've got much more maturity than most of the guys of my age around. Would love to use a LF camera.
I do have plans in climbing formats; I want to have my first view camera after ending university, which is 7-9 years down the road, me being around 23-25. My plan is to be using just MF and LF by then. Maybe 35mm, but it should not be the main format, 120.
I would like to attract some friends into film photography, but the instant thing is a hard temptation to have. I prefer my good old VF, Looking at a screen of a compact (only D* cam I have) makes me feel stupid; I just avoid it as much as possible.

jp80874 · Apr 11, 2009

Prest_400 said:
I.... Would love to use a LF camera. I do have plans in climbing formats; I want to have my first view camera after ending university, .

Many high schools and universities have photography programs that include the use of cameras purchased by the university. I am 69 years old and taking courses in my retirement. The university I attend has medium format, 4x5 view cameras and digital slrs to loan to the students to give them a wide range of experience. When you are making long range plans, ask if the university you are looking at has these cameras for the students to try.

John Powers
Oh, to be 18 and do it again. Good luck.

Reinhold · Apr 12, 2009

A little story...

A few weeks ago this white bearded old goat and his white haired wife with a trick knee were photographing an old, almost forgotten historic cemetery in a little burg called Louisville, Illinois. It was pretty chilly, lotsa dew on the grass, and low angle morning light. I started out with my rattly old RB-67 to "survey the possibilities".

As the light improved and my sensitivities about the place deepened, I knew that this little pocket of history demanded more than a "hit and run" approach to photographing it. It called for a hike back to the car through wet grass to get the 4x5, an ice cold tripod and an armada of lenses.

Looking through the ground glass stirred our senses even deeper; the 4x5 image became a portal to yesterday. It wasn't just the fact that the image was larger than the RB-67's: somehow the essence of the place revealed itself. With our head under the dark cloth we were transported...

I shoot MF, LF, & ULF. My wife and I started this game back in 1959; lugging big cameras around in search of experiences to enrich our lives. That morning reminded me just how important Big Cameras are in our lives.

Reinhold (and Judy)

www.classicBWphoto.com

mike c · Apr 12, 2009

Shooting LF my mature a person,but I think it also opens up your eyes to another place to explore. Gets those old juices going ,creative opportunities will come into focus. So perhaps not so much as maturity but youthful engagement in the creative process. As long as the camera ant to heavy.

david_mizen · Apr 12, 2009

i came to lf via pentax k1000 nikon f2sb & f3 and arax modified kiev 88, photography is not my day job and i have found acquring lf gear much more expensive than all of the rest, the only way i have been able to afford what i have is to climb the income ladder and i wonder whether a collage graduate could afford the gear and if they can would they buy a for example nikon d3.

I regret that i did'nt get into it earliear as i now find the weight a bit taxing.

Graham.b · Apr 12, 2009

Reinhold said:
A little story...

A few weeks ago this white bearded old goat and his white haired wife with a trick knee were photographing an old, almost forgotten historic cemetery in a little burg called Louisville, Illinois. It was pretty chilly, lotsa dew on the grass, and low angle morning light. I started out with my rattly old RB-67 to "survey the possibilities".

As the light improved and my sensitivities about the place deepened, I knew that this little pocket of history demanded more than a "hit and run" approach to photographing it. It called for a hike back to the car through wet grass to get the 4x5, an ice cold tripod and an armada of lenses.

Looking through the ground glass stirred our senses even deeper; the 4x5 image became a portal to yesterday. It wasn't just the fact that the image was larger than the RB-67's: somehow the essence of the place revealed itself. With our head under the dark cloth we were transported...

I shoot MF, LF, & ULF. My wife and I started this game back in 1959; lugging big cameras around in search of experiences to enrich our lives. That morning reminded me just how important Big Cameras are in our lives.

Reinhold (and Judy)

www.classicBWphoto.com[/QUOTE

This is such i nice story, i think many of us with a little sole could relate to this. Your 1959, that is the year i came about. Born that is. The weather that day did every thing it could to warn the world.

David i think we all feel the pain as we enter the aches and pain years some more than others.

Graham

ChrisC · Apr 12, 2009

I bought my first LF camera with money I received for my 21st four years ago. My reasoning behind it was a more measured approach, and the fact I would always load a roll of film into a 35mm camera, shoot half a roll then 'run out of things to shoot' (I'm sure you all know how it goes) so would either fill the rest of the roll with crap, or leave it sitting in the camera for weeks. LF lets me develop even one shot if that's all I take on an outing.
I always think to myself I should carry a 35mm camera with me everywhere I go to make me a better photographer ( I know it will) and just shoot more even if it's not my preferred format, but I just can't bring myself to buy another one with for what one costs, I could have another couple of boxes of film that'll last me a year.

I don't really know if this makes me more mature. If anything, I think it makes me more impatient.

Prest_400 · Apr 12, 2009

jp80874 said:
Many high schools and universities have photography programs that include the use of cameras purchased by the university. I am 69 years old and taking courses in my retirement. The university I attend has medium format, 4x5 view cameras and digital slrs to loan to the students to give them a wide range of experience. When you are making long range plans, ask if the university you are looking at has these cameras for the students to try.

John Powers
Oh, to be 18 and do it again. Good luck.

Thanks, I'll have to check once I enter University. I still have few years left before enter one.

My high school doesn't have any photography program, just a nature photo competition every april. Let's see if I end the roll of my holiday in the mountainside... 3 exposures left. I want to see the results of my first serious photo "hike" (I don't find the proper word). Forest, flowers, trees; sunset light/shadow... and some 20-30 year old telephoto lens bokeh. The latter is impossible in the D* compacts most people got.
I want to have some nice competition; Most photos presented are snaps... last year 1st prize was just a tree but had bad light (midday) as the photog that made it (classmate) told me.

jp80874 · Apr 12, 2009

Prest_400 said:
Thanks, I'll have to check once I enter University.

My thought was to explore this question before you enter university. Ask the question when you are gathering information about which university to attend if this is still important to you at that time.

There are several universities within 50 miles of me, but there is only one that has three darkrooms, 35 enlargers, a color processor, view cameras, medium format cameras and digital cameras that the students may borrow for their courses. This university has Photo 1, Photo 2, Advanced Photo that you take four times with four different professors, color, portrait, professional photography lighting 1 and 2 , history of photography, as well as a complete line of digital courses.

Another highly respected university within 50 miles has Photo 1.

If you wanted to study photography it would be nice to know before you enrolled which university had the courses and equipment and which did not.
John

srmcnamara · Apr 12, 2009

I'm 21 now and probably not particularly mature. I love my 4x5 although that might have something to do with the shiny new toyness of it all.

Regarding Photo programs I started out going to a normal university in DC before I knew I was interested in photography. I think they might have had a photo 1 class but that was it. I transferred out of there and went to Community College with a rather well developed photo department. They built a brand new darkroom (!!!) while I was there so that was nice. I don't think they had any cameras though. Now I go to a full-fledged art school in Baltimore with a whole floor devoted to the photo department and as many cameras as you could shake a stick at. Although I think you have to be enrolled in the large format class to use those and as I'm still a relative underclassman I got too impatient. Hopefully next fall I'll take it.

panastasia · Apr 12, 2009

Graham.b said:
John, to go to 8x10 well, i do not have the room to put that sort of enlarger any where to print, i have 3 at the mo. But to get the 4x5 i would have room for. I would lose the 35, keep the 645 then put the 4x5 where the 35 was. My D/R is 13x7ft. Most of the post i have read all say the same, just go to the top and save money.

Graham

I moved up to MF with a 6x8 view camera because that was the largest format I could enlarge and I don't care for prints larger than 14x17". I chose a view camera for all the control it gave me (camera movements) and loved the process. I later bought my RB for more speed and even later bought a 645 for light weight. For me LF is synonymous with contact prints and 4x5 would be too small - not a far cry from 6x8 enlargements - so if there's a LF camera in my future it would be a 5x7 (minimum) or 8x10 - for contact prints. I would imagine that large format negatives are difficult to keep flat in enlargers (I hate glass negative carriers) and a 14x17 camera would be too big for me. Money and maturity had little to do with my decisions, athough I think my age is now mature. I'm 61.

Paul

jp80874 · Apr 12, 2009

panastasia said:
I would imagine that large format negatives are difficult to keep flat in enlargers Paul

Paul,

Think glass negative holder, maybe even antinewton ring glass negative holder.

John Powers

panastasia · Apr 12, 2009

jp80874 said:
Paul,

Think glass negative holder, maybe even antinewton ring glass negative holder.

John Powers

Hi John, I just now edited my post before I read yours. "I hate glass negative carriers", I have one w/anti newton glass and rarely use it. Aren't contact prints the optimum? One lens projection.

Paul

MurrayMinchin · Apr 12, 2009

I "matured up" at the age of 32, but bought my 4x5 outfit eleven years earlier.

Murray

jp80874 · Apr 13, 2009

panastasia said:
Hi John, I just now edited my post before I read yours. "I hate glass negative carriers", I have one w/anti newton glass and rarely use it. Aren't contact prints the optimum? One lens projection.

Paul

Paul,

IMHO nothing is optimum for all situations. I like 8x10 contact sheets when I am holding them in my hand or looking at them on a wall while standing 1-2 feet from the image. If I am going to see them on a wall from several feet I prefer enlargement. In a small room a 20x24 enlargement of a well focused 8x10 negative is pretty dramatic. I have not had trouble with a glass carrier in my 8x10 enlarger. It has anti newton glass. What has caused your dislike?

For my 7x17 my only choice at this time is contact prints. I make them under the cold light from my 8x10 enlarger, use VCFB paper which gives me the option to change grades and split grade print. I would love to enlarge these, but that or a larger camera are not viable for me at this time.

John

Is the L/F for the more Mature

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