Empty nester?
My hobby spending is taking the backseat to college tuition payments.Is the film craze dead?
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Empty nester?
My hobby spending is taking the backseat to college tuition payments.
Someone has to stimulate the economy!
Didn't they say something similar about oil and watercolour painting when photography became a vable alternative? That is still going strong.
For what it is worth I feel the initial question was more of a 'dig' at film photographers than a good honest question with any merit.
For what it is worth I feel the initial question was more of a 'dig' at film photographers than a good honest question with any merit.
While I won't go THAT far in my spending on vacation, when put in perspective with plane tickets, hotels and rental cars, it doesn't really come to that much. And home processing ($1-2 for B&W or $2-5 for C41 or ECN-2) with bulk rolling 35mm ($4-7 B&W or $5-7 ECN-2) cuts the cost to a half or even a quarter.
I wasn't taking a dig at film photographers. I was simply pointing out that nobody seems to be buying film gear as much as before, so I think anyone getting into film is probably done with a few exceptions. Therefore the craze is over and prices will probably fall a lot.
Craze and gear prices have rather little connection. Gear is bought by shooters, collectors, and need-another crowd. Film is largely not good for collecting long term. Film purchases have been steadily increasing, only time will tell if industry is looking at steady demand long term. But gear will continue to hit market and I don't see prices falling, barring some major tragedy affecting a lot of population and seriously changing their priorities.
Current trends are not good indicators of anything due to ongoing war and still unknown end result, as well as inflation etc. Once all these things settle down, film prices hopefully drop 10-15%, and gear is going to regain momentum in sales.
The price of gear is totally market-driven, since there are practically no new film cameras being made, nor lenses that will work with them. Trends, fans, collectors and rarity will determine those prices which could fluctuate quite a bit. Film prices, on the other hand are dependent on the cost of raw materials, manufacturing and distribution--plus demand. I don't see those going down much in the near future.
I agree on film prices, but raw materials / production costs are always easy excuses to add on profit margin (we saw that with petrol prices and oil majors' significant net profit jumps). For the most part there are still accountants in those offices looking not only to protect bottom line (and clear tax audits), but to find better positive margins.
What I am hoping for is that once inflation drops from these rather historic levels, the lag to adjust will not take forever. One can only hope film will catch another breath of sanity in how it is priced.
Inflation levels now might be near historic levels, but they have been this high as recently as the 70s and 80s. Shit happens.
A company is deserving of profit. Why else are they in business? Of course, shareholders expect profits, too. Companies that cut quality, personnel, pay and benefits for the sake of profits are basically evil in my view. Companies that use any excuse to jack up prices, like the aforementioned oil companies, are quite unethical, too.
Which is well and good until Kodak raises it prices and then it is called gouging. Damn the Kodak haters!
MattKing
Moderator
In olden days, it was entirely appropriate to discuss Kodak profits and oil company profits in the same sentence.
Now it is entirely appropriate to compare it with other small cap companies, with around 4,000 employees - only a relatively small portion of which are involved with film.
Now it is entirely appropriate to compare it with other small cap companies, with around 4,000 employees - only a relatively small portion of which are involved with film.
It's not "hating" Kodak to recognize that their prices are too high. More and more often you see people saying they've switched to Ilford or Foma for b&w or thye've given up colour because the cost of film is too high. The people saying that, on this forum, are the people who are likely to continue shooting film once the current fad falls into obscurity. And they all accompany their statements with "Kodak ___ film is the best, but I can't afford it, anymore."
That's not hatred. That's sadness, man. Sadness.
As long as people want to shoot film, Kodak can charge whatever they feel the market will bear. Film is not a necessity, it is a luxury.
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Is the "Is the film craze dead?" thread dead yet?
As for Kodak complaints - hey, making high quality and color film involves some very serious overhead. Would you prefer zero availability or overpriced? Heck, I shoot 8x10 Ektar, and am well aware of the issue. The cure in fairly simple, shoot more 120 film, and reserve the 8x10 for those special instances really big enlargements come into play.
Fact of life. And some of us would love to see something like large format 5X7 Kodachrome made again. A pipe dream, of course, and it would probably cost a hundred dollars a shot, if not more.
Just look at a gallon of high quality house paint, by comparison. What cost $30 per gallon a few years ago is now $70. High quality marine varnish is around $150 per quart. Buy a wooden yacht, and you'll never complain about the cost of refinishing or shooting a wooden camera again. Or sell the yacht and buy a few more boxes of film.
As for Kodak complaints - hey, making high quality and color film involves some very serious overhead. Would you prefer zero availability or overpriced? Heck, I shoot 8x10 Ektar, and am well aware of the issue. The cure in fairly simple, shoot more 120 film, and reserve the 8x10 for those special instances really big enlargements come into play.
Fact of life. And some of us would love to see something like large format 5X7 Kodachrome made again. A pipe dream, of course, and it would probably cost a hundred dollars a shot, if not more.
Just look at a gallon of high quality house paint, by comparison. What cost $30 per gallon a few years ago is now $70. High quality marine varnish is around $150 per quart. Buy a wooden yacht, and you'll never complain about the cost of refinishing or shooting a wooden camera again. Or sell the yacht and buy a few more boxes of film.
Oil prices are driven for a long time by government regulation reducing oil production in the US and the OPEC cartel (they just dropped oil production deliberately by 1 1/2 millions barrels a day which will raise prices for all the oil companies and higher prices on everything including film).
Like you say Kodak (Eastman) raises prices as does Kodak Alaris based on material costs going up, labor cost going up etc. Unlike oil companies and OPEC, they have little power over these other things and are victims of inflation just as we ordinary mortals are.
Also, there are so many film companies and emulsions. Competition is working to keep greed down.
One trip to the pharmacy for my prescriptions and the change in film prices easily go unnoticed. Or a trip to the gas station. <<insert many other examples here>>
Oh oh. We agree again.
But what does that have to do with what I said? You don't have the options with gasoline or prescriptions that you do with film.
Also, you said you have a bunch of frozen film. When is the last time you bought new Kodak film?
I bought a box of 4x5 Tri-X a couple of months ago.
add bad management, market blindness, business reflux maybe ... Kodak is a sad story these days, so is Fujifilm. One can hope things will change at the two, but at this point looks like something else is controlling these decisions. I don't think we will ever know.
The only actual hope is that there is going to be a choice and more and more users will stop supporting products that no matter how good it may be, is plainly overpriced.
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
Not dead. My numbers are up for next school year... after we were told that numbers are down in electives for senior students... and it's got nothing to do with my magnetic personality 
... and it's got nothing to do with my magnetic personality
… and all this time I thought you were analogue. LOL
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