Is straight photography dead?

[Alan Edward Klein]

Vince, what's the AI link so we can try this ourselves?

 

[Hassasin]

if one needs AI's help to better own photographic skills, he needs help. I don't mean to offend anyone, but having ideas and no being able to deliver them is not going to change when AI is going make a suggestion that fits that idea. I don't frankly how AI can be used in that. sense to start with.

Surely there will be another field of AI image making and just like with computer graphics, there will be users who will excel, become successful etc., whichever definition to the latter we apply.

I just don't see how AI can cook a meal for me I will like, and then somehow that will help me become a better cook.

I am just going to stay the course and disregard AI as a viable alternative in photographic process. Anyone is free to call for its help.

 

[VinceInMT]

Vince, what's the AI link so we can try this ourselves?

https://chat.openai.com/

 

[VinceInMT]

AI is just a tool. Like other tools, it can be used in a variety of ways or not used at all. It is amusing to feed it tasks and see the results. For example:

“Give me an idea for a photograph that emphasizes shadows while creating a juxtaposition animal and mineral.”


One idea for a photograph that emphasizes shadows while creating a juxtaposition between animal and mineral could be to capture a close-up shot of a lizard or snake slithering over a rock or piece of crystal. The photo could be taken at a low angle, with the sunlight casting strong shadows of the animal's scales onto the mineral surface. The contrast between the organic, living creature and the hard, inanimate material would create a striking visual contrast, while the shadows would add depth and drama to the image. The photograph could be enhanced with post-processing techniques such as increasing the contrast or desaturating the colors to further emphasize the shadows and the contrast between the animal and mineral.

Or

“Give me an idea for a photograph in the style of Man Ray that opens a discussion about the fragility of life juxtaposed with strength found in nature.”


How about a photograph of a delicate butterfly resting on a rock formation with a strong, flowing river in the background? The butterfly represents the fragility of life, while the rock formation and river symbolize the strength and power of nature. You could experiment with lighting and angles to create a surreal and dream-like atmosphere, similar to Man Ray's style. This photograph could lead to a discussion about the interconnectedness of life and the importance of preserving the environment.

 

[snusmumriken]

MO, “imagination” is the step in the creative process that visualizes or recognizes what may be an interesting image to create. Drawing and painting is no different from photography in that it is a learned set of skills made better with practice.

I think visualising and recognising are very different processes. When I was at school, there were art classes but no art tuition. You were given the materials and encouraged to “express yourself”, any subject. Trouble was, I had nothing to express, couldn’t ever think of a subject, and if one was suggested I couldn’t construct a scene in my head. But I could draw anything they put in front of me.

 

[faberryman]

I think visualising and recognising are very different processes. When I was at school, there were art classes but no art tuition. You were given the materials and encouraged to “express yourself”, any subject. Trouble was, I had nothing to express, couldn’t ever think of a subject, and if one was suggested I couldn’t construct a scene in my head. But I could draw anything they put in front of me.

That is how they approached teaching art when I was in kindergarten. The teacher gave you a sheet of paper and some crayons and said draw a pretty picture. There was one kid in the class, Mark, who was so talented, all of pictures looked like they were generated by AI, only better. The teacher would look at my pictures and remark how interesting they were. I think you need to have a good balance of ideas and technique. For example, Jackson Pollack had good ideas, and especially good technique when throwing a can of paint on a canvas. It's all in the wrist.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Back to Vince Montana's earlier statement about AI potentially being better at writing an "Artist's Statement". What's the difference between that and cheating on a term paper? It's not your statement anyway; so how does it reflect your own perceptual process? The danged AI program can't even see; it only fakes that it can. And who the heck needs those silly artist statements anyway. Guess the AI system does, in order to prove it actually made the fake picture itself too. Let them hold their own galleries openings somewhere out in cyberspace, and leave we actual humans alone to do our own thing, using out own set of eyes.

 

[snusmumriken]

Back to Vince Montana's earlier statement about AI potentially being better at writing an "Artist's Statement". What's the difference between that and cheating on a term paper? It's not your statement anyway; so how does it reflect your own perceptual process? The danged AI program can't even see; it only fakes that it can. And who the heck needs those silly artist statements anyway. Guess the AI system does, in order to prove it actually made the fake picture itself too. Let them hold their own galleries openings somewhere out in cyberspace, and leave we actual humans alone to do our own thing, using out own set of eyes.

When we first had computer-generated music (70s?) someone suggested that the logical endpoint was to make the computers listen to it and not bother the rest of us.

 

[VinceInMT]

Back to Vince Montana's earlier statement about AI potentially being better at writing an "Artist's Statement". What's the difference between that and cheating on a term paper? It's not your statement anyway; so how does it reflect your own perceptual process? The danged AI program can't even see; it only fakes that it can. And who the heck needs those silly artist statements anyway. Guess the AI system does, in order to prove it actually made the fake picture itself too. Let them hold their own galleries openings somewhere out in cyberspace, and leave we actual humans alone to do our own thing, using out own set of eyes.

Using AI to generate an artist statement for an assignment is, IMO, cheating, which is why I brought the issue up with the art department. One of the professors indicated that one student had turned in an artist statement as poem that appeared to be way beyond anything this student had written in the past. The education community is just catching on to what students have been using for a while.

As for who needs "silly artist statements anyway," they are a common requirement in art classes and, in many cases, when submitting work for a show or exhibition. They do serve a purpose, something we beat to death on another thread.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I don’t and hope to never pay attention to artificially produced anything. Fake is fake, even if it may look straight.

In a word, it won”t. I would much rather first become part of the fake “decisive moment” movement.

+1

 

[Sirius Glass]

AI is only at its beginning and already faking images of all sorts that are not obviously fake. For sure we will be falling for some "reality" before we find out it was all fake. In such a case I will just flush it out of my system and try to see it as a never happened.

+1

 

[faberryman]

Using AI to generate an artist statement for an assignment is, IMO, cheating, which is why I brought the issue up with the art department. One of the professors indicated that one student had turned in an artist statement as poem that appeared to be way beyond anything this student had written in the past. The education community is just catching on to what students have been using for a while.

As for who needs "silly artist statements anyway," they are a common requirement in art classes and, in many cases, when submitting work for a show or exhibition. They do serve a purpose, something we beat to death on another thread.

I read artists statements after I have viewed the photographs to determine whether the artist was successful in conveying his ideas to me through his photographs. I don't want to have any preconceptions during the first go through. Then, after I read the artists statement, I look at the photographs again to see if I missed something.

I have seen some enlightening artists statements and I have seen some that were either unbelievable or simply gibberish. A few years ago, I attended the Photrio Symposium in Toronto organized by Bob Carnie. There was a group show at one of the photography galleries. The following day, a gallery owner from New York delivered a lecture on some of the photographs displayed at the show. What I learned from the lecture was that if you want an impressive artist statement, have it prepared by a professional. You will learn all sorts of things about your photography that you weren't aware of. It will be a terrific boost to your confidence to know that you are such an incredibly gifted photographer.

My favorite artist statement was by a photographer who was displaying a series of photographs depicting her struggle with depression. She said that to enhance the expression of her ideas she put Prozac in the print developer. I don't know, maybe she genuinely thought print developer and enlarging paper have serotonin levels which can be regulated. Maybe it was simply a ritual that put her in the proper frame of mind to print. Maybe it worked. Maybe she earned her MFA. Maybe her prints sell for a million dollars. The real question though is whether the prints can be considered straight photography.

As an aside, Bob Carnie spent an inordinate amount of his own personal time and money to organize the show. It was fantastic. Only a handful of Photrio members bothered to show up. It goes without saying there have been no subsequent events.

 

[Pieter12]

Maybe the subject of this thread (if you can even identify it anymore) should be "straightforward" rather than "straight." I realize the OP was really about photos that are unaltered any non-photographic means, it deteriorated into all kinds of perceived alterations to photos and members' biases.

 

[VinceInMT]

Many artists have relied on a muse to inspire their work. Manet used Victorians Meurent, Man Ray had Kiki de Montparnasse and Lee Miller, Picasso had Dora Maar, etc.

In this program, cancer patients fulfill the role of muse when they are teamed with artists to produce work that speaks about the cancer patient’s experience.

https://twistoutcancer.org/brushes/

"The Brushes With Cancer initiative pairs artists with cancer survivors, who, over a four-month period, serve as muses (or “inspirations”) for artworks to be exhibited and auctioned off at a gala event."

Perhaps that is a role AI can play, as an artist muse.

 

[Pieter12]

Many artists have relied on a muse to inspire their work. Manet used Victorians Meurent, Man Ray had Kiki de Montparnasse and Lee Miller, Picasso had Dora Maar, etc.

In this program, cancer patients fulfill the role of muse when they are teamed with artists to produce work that speaks about the cancer patient’s experience.

https://twistoutcancer.org/brushes/

"The Brushes With Cancer initiative pairs artists with cancer survivors, who, over a four-month period, serve as muses (or “inspirations”) for artworks to be exhibited and auctioned off at a gala event."

Perhaps that is a role AI can play, as an artist muse.

Sounds more like a prompt than a muse. I know a designer who has tried to use Adobe's AI and Midjourney to design a logo. The results were abysmal, with hundreds of useless variations, but they
did help him cull some elements for a final design. Sort of a visual brainstorming tool.

 

[faberryman]

Many artists have relied on a muse to inspire their work. Manet used Victorians Meurent, Man Ray had Kiki de Montparnasse and Lee Miller, Picasso had Dora Maar, etc.

In this program, cancer patients fulfill the role of muse when they are teamed with artists to produce work that speaks about the cancer patient’s experience.

https://twistoutcancer.org/brushes/

"The Brushes With Cancer initiative pairs artists with cancer survivors, who, over a four-month period, serve as muses (or “inspirations”) for artworks to be exhibited and auctioned off at a gala event."

Perhaps that is a role AI can play, as an artist muse.

I read the link. It seems to me that art therapy should benefit the patient and not the therapist. Any minute spent on what the artist can get out of the relationship, is a minute lost from helping the patient. What life threatening issue is the artist experiencing? It seems a little backwards for the cancer patients to be the ones serving as muses for the artists.

 

[Pieter12]

It seems to me that art therapy should benefit the patient and not the therapist. Any minute spent on what the artist can get out of the relationship, is a minute lost from helping the patient. What life threatening issue is the artist experiencing? It seems a little backwards for the cancer patients to serve as the muse for the artists.

Not an expert here or anything close. But it seems like the act of the patient talking to the artist, maybe about their experiences or their hopes, would be at least a bit therapeutic.

 

[warden]

Sort of a visual brainstorming tool.

yes of course, I’ve been using it the same way. As far as artist statements I imagine AI would be great at producing several variations after reviewing text or image examples of your work, and then you could write your own after reviewing the ideas you might not have had otherwise. Not cheating at all, just stimuli to get you going.

 

[faberryman]

Not an expert here or anything close. But it seems like the act of the patient talking to the artist, maybe about their experiences or their hopes, would be at least a bit therapeutic.

Here is an excerpt from the link which describes the program:

"Brushes with Cancer strategically matches artists with those touched by cancer to create unique pieces of artwork reflective of their journey. Over a period of 4 months, pairs will connect virtually and their relationships are guided and supported by Twist Out Cancer mentors with the intention of creating a support system for both the artist and inspiration. The program finishes on a high note with our signature celebratory art exhibition, gala and auction."

I think by "inspiration" they mean the cancer patient.

I am sure the patient derives benefit. It is everyone else benefiting that troubles me.

 

[Pieter12]

I am sure the patient derives benefit. It is everyone else benefiting that troubles me.

Why should mutual benefaction be offensive? It does not sound like anyone was among a profit from the artworks or exhibition, nor that the patients were excluded from the gala or exhibition.

 

[faberryman]

Why should mutual benefaction be offensive? It does not sound like anyone was among a profit from the artworks or exhibition, nor that the patients were excluded from the gala or exhibition.

Patient inspires artist. Artist paints painting. Painting is sold at auction. Who receives the proceeds from the auction? It seems that the benefit to the patient is secondary. Why not give the painting to the patient? Perhaps the patient could use the painting as a daily visual reminder of her relationship with the artist and how such relationship served as succor and support during her time of crisis. Nah. The starting bid for the auction I saw was $1250. Can't let that slip away.

Of course, we are now well astray of the topic of the death of straight photography. Is this the same thread where we were talking about bathroom caulk?

 

[VinceInMT]

Here’s another example of artists and muses working together:

Songwriting with Soldiers

 

[Pieter12]

Patient inspires artist. Artist paints painting. Painting is sold at auction. Who receives the proceeds from the auction? It seems that the benefit to the patient is secondary. Why not give the painting to the patient? Perhaps the patient could use the painting as a daily visual reminder of her relationship with the artist and how such relationship served as succor and support during her time of crisis. Nah. The starting bid for the auction I saw was $1250. Can't let that slip away.

Of course, we are now well astray of the topic of the death of straight photography. Is this the same thread where we were talking about bathroom caulk?

You are assuming the artist receives the proceeds, rather than the hospital to use for cancer research or treatment.

 

[faberryman]

Here’s another example of artists and muses working together:

Songwriting with Soldiers

Unless I missed it, the songs are not being giving by the affected soldiers and the musicians to Songwriting with Soldiers to sell at auction.

 

[VinceInMT]

Of course, sometimes the artist is the patient. My sketchbooks have lots of imagery I created during my own meet up with cancer. I had traveled 5 states away for surgery and was in a hotel room for a week during my initial recovery before I was cleared to fly home. During that week, I only left the room for short walks down the hallway but made LOTS of drawings. I drew what I saw in the room, what I saw out the window, did a self portrait or two, and worked on abstracts and surrealist images that reflected what I was feeling. Not once did I turn the TV on during that stay so aside from my books I‘d brought to read, drawing was my therapist.

I have a friend who had been diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer that had spread to the liver. He wasn’t given very good odds of survival and opted form some very aggressive chemotherapy which, he said, almost killed him. He told that they only thing that kept him going was his sketchbook. That was 12 years ago and he’s been declared cured.