Is sodium metaborate suppose to be clumpy?

[Saganich]

Thanks xkaes

I have been trying to do process of elimination on this one. I thought it might have been the film flaking off at first but then I developed another film brand and still got them I then checked the tank itself and it checked out all right. Made another batch of D23 with the same chemicals, same specks. The one and only thing that tells me it may not be a chemical issue is that when I put that first roll through that batch of chemistry there were no specks at all. Only after developing that very first roll then they appear Something changed at that point and I don't know what that may have been.

It's Gremlins I tell ya!

There will be dissolved silver in the used developer. I replenish my D23 and over time there's noticeable buildup of dissolved silver, more greyish than black, which settles to the bottom.

 

[What About Bob]

Yea, it's a little lumpy sometimes. Fairly fresh, it should break apart without too much effort (no hammers), but the clumps get harder with age, and hammers may be required. Not as bad a potassium bromide.

Or brown sugar bricks, lol. Those you have to drop out of your window.

Thank you Saganich for showing me your example.

 

[What About Bob]

There will be dissolved silver in the used developer. I replenish my D23 and over time there's noticeable buildup of dissolved silver, more greyish than black, which settles to the bottom.

I use D23 1:1. Would these things show up in a one-shot solution?

 

[What About Bob]

Lots of chemicals absorb atmospheric water, even if the storage container is very good, as fresh air enters each time it's opened. Sodium carbonate is probably the best known to photographers. I discovered that my potassium carbonate, which hasn't changed its "powderyness" has to be used at 1.26 times the formula weight, despite being in quite good storage container with tight fitting lid.

Good to know. Sodium carbonate will be a purchase at some point when I get to making up some Dektol.

Thanks John

 

[lamerko]

Lots of chemicals absorb atmospheric water, even if the storage container is very good, as fresh air enters each time it's opened. Sodium carbonate is probably the best known to photographers. I discovered that my potassium carbonate, which hasn't changed its "powderyness" has to be used at 1.26 times the formula weight, despite being in quite good storage container with tight fitting lid.

The anhydrous carbonate (MW 106) will convert to the monohydrate (MW 124) in the presence of moisture. Therefore, my threshold is a factor of 1.17. The chemical dealers in my area sell it in plastic bags...

 

[john_s]

The anhydrous carbonate (MW 106) will convert to the monohydrate (MW 124) in the presence of moisture. Therefore, my threshold is a factor of 1.17. The chemical dealers in my area sell it in plastic bags...

Maybe mine didn't stop at monohydrate.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Yea, it's a little lumpy sometimes. Fairly fresh, it should break apart without too much effort (no hammers), but the clumps get harder with age, and hammers may be required. Not as bad a potassium bromide.

I was given an original Kodak cardboard drum of Kodalk (Sodium Metaborate) many years ago and the stuff from Kodak is very fine like wheat flour. I never transferred it to a sealed container, and now I have to chip off what I need. Still works perfect and it's probably close to 50yrs. old by now.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

I have a 25lb package of sodium carbonate mono, and it's like cement. I just use a hammer to break it up when I need it.

 

[pentaxpete]

Regarding 'Old Chemicals ' : I used to get 10 Kg at a time of Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Sulphite Anhydrous from an Old Gent who had contacts with a chemical company -- he has long since Died - so they must be over 30 years old now -- I notice my Kodak D23 1+1 dev times have to be much LONGER than the recommended -- do you think the alkalinity of the Sulphite has deteriorated ? I added a half tea-spoon of the Sodium Carbonate anhyd to a mix of D23 and got shorter times after diluting it. Would it 'Change' the characteristics of the D23 ?

 

[koraks]

do you think the alkalinity of the Sulphite has deteriorated

As long as it's kept reasonably dry, it doesn't change. It'll clump together, which is annoying whenever you have to break it up, but it stays pretty much the same.

I added a half tea-spoon of the Sodium Carbonate anhyd to a mix of D23 and got shorter times after diluting it. Would it 'Change' the characteristics of the D23 ?

Adding sodium carbonate to D23 will indeed make it develop faster.

Odds are that your standards for a negative are just different than those of the people you took the recommended development times from. Maybe you like your negatives a little beefier so you have to develop a little longer.

 

[pentaxpete]

M r KORAKS : yes thanks for reply and I DO like 'Beefier' negs !

 

[Saganich]

I use D23 1:1. Would these things show up in a one-shot solution?

One shot means your not reusing the developer or pouring it back into the stock bottle. After development your pouring the used developed down the drain. In that case no dissolved silver from development should be getting back into the stock bottle since it's going down the drain. Also, some dissolved silver will get into the fix as well. Usually, fix isn't used as a one shot. Sorry if I'm overstating the obvious.

 

[retina_restoration]

I use D23 1:1. Would these things show up in a one-shot solution?

So, to be absolutely clear about this - you are diluting the stock d-23 with water at a ratio of 1:1, developing a roll of film and then discarding the used developer, yes? You are not reusing the developer in any way? You use your 1:1 developer solution once and then throw it away, is that correct?

 

[What About Bob]

I am not reusing the developer. I only put the solution back into the graduate after I am done developing just to check to see what the temperature shows and in this case to see if there were any specks again. 1:1 solutions get dumped after use.

 

[retina_restoration]

It's possible that if any of the rest of us captured the used developer in a beaker and inspected it, we might find junk in the solution as well. But generally, people just dump it down the drain and don't inspect the used solution.

 

[john_s]

As long as it's kept reasonably dry, it doesn't change. ........

In the case of sodium sulphite, if the clumping is caused by some atmospheric water absorption, might that water enable the sulphite to oxidise to sulphate (as it does in solution)? As I've written before, I will get some fresh sodium sulphite for developer mixing and use the old stuff for paper rinse aid.

 

[koraks]

In the case of sodium sulphite, if the clumping is caused by some atmospheric water absorption, might that water enable the sulphite to oxidise to sulphate (as it does in solution)?

I imagine so, but the amount will be quite small. I doubt it'll make a difference in practice. The clumping will mostly be annoying when weighing the stuff out.

 

[uranylcation]

In the case of sodium sulphite, if the clumping is caused by some atmospheric water absorption, might that water enable the sulphite to oxidise to sulphate (as it does in solution)? As I've written before, I will get some fresh sodium sulphite for developer mixing and use the old stuff for paper rinse aid.

Won't matter enough to have any impact as long as it's still a solid. It only get oxidized fast enough in solution, and much faster in the presence of acid.

 

[Sidd]

I received my chemicals from Artcraft. The metol and the sodium metaborate came in a dark container while the sulfite came in a white one. All containers were wrapped with black tape? Is it normal for the metaborate to be clumpy? The other two containers don't make any sharp sounds when shaking them.

Sodium Metaborate which I have procured here in India is quite clumpy. Although, developers I have mixed before in warm water functioned okay. Few days ago I was trying to make Alan Johnson's new developer DCM 18, but I couldn't dissolve 18 GM's of Metaborate in 80 ml of warm propylene glycol, lots of clumps remained even after dissolving ascorbic acid. Later I had ground the dry clumps by a pestle and sieved the finer grains and used then could dissolve the required amount in glycol.