Is now the time to sell our film cameras?

Agulliver · May 3, 2019

On the one hand, if your friend is no longer enjoying shooting and developing film & prints then it's worth considering selling his gear. As long as he's certain he won't later change his mind. "The great film sell off" when everyone and his canine companion was "going digital" in the early 2000s resulted in film cameras, lenses, flash guns, all sorts of ephemera being sold off for bargain prices. It's how I greatly expanded my collection of lenses and acquired bulk loaders and bricks of film for peanuts. During those years the sales of film and darkroom equipment also plummeted. Now when I look at auctions for more equipment to go with my Nikon or Praktica SLRs the prices have skyrocketed. When i look for decent compact 35mm cameras the prices have skyrocketed...I was looking at 120 rangefinder cameras last week and decide "nope...no effing way I can afford one".

In more recent years the market has stabilised and begun to grow. I see many more young people into film. Just last weekend I was easily the oldest person in a proper camera shop in Cardiff (including the staff)...very refreshing to see young people using film, knowledgeable about film and cameras. A few weeks ago I took myself on a photo walk on the "parkland walk" in London and came across teenagers shooting with a Nikon film SLR. People's attitude when I am out and about with film gear is no longer to look at me like I am some space alien but to ask about the gear, where I get film, wistfully talk about their camera in the cupboard....heck a few months ago a guy walked into my favourite pub with a Canon film SLR equipped with flash on the hotshoe around his neck...which really is something you don't expect to see in 2019.... I don't see any further major changes in the photo industry. Most people even gave up using cameras for phones a few years ago and the market has already adjusted to reflect that.

Personally I don't buy gear as an investment...I buy it because I enjoy using it. Whether it's a century old box camera, 50s aluminium stunner, 80s electronic camera....they're all fun in their own ways. Most are probably "worth" more than I paid but I have no interest in selling them. If someone has genuinely fallen out of love with film photography and the darkroom then by all means....selling now is better than selling 15 years ago. But OP's friend has a specific set of circumstances that might make selling gear right for him. I'm only in my mid 40s and intend to still be shooting film 30-40 years hence.

RalphLambrecht · May 5, 2019

ozmoose said:
I seem to be playing the devil's advocate this week. By way of explaining this, I'm at home, five days before I depart for Southeast Asia on one of my extended photo shoots, with no household chores to be done before I go (ours is an entirely Sagittarian environment, two humans and three cats shari the same astrological sign, admittedly in the latter case as far as we know as our felines don't have birth certificates so we go by the personalities and traits, most definitely December fur babies they are) and little to do but read, write, plan my next two months' travel adventures and daydream.

Now to return to the point...

A dear friend long involved in photography has in the past year moved fully into digital (Nikons) and mostly given up shooting film. He isn't especially pro or con one or the other but says he did so for convenience and ease of creating his images. According to him, while he "sort of" misses his black-and-white film work, his digi results are as good as anything he did before, shooting is easier, he enjoys what little post-processing he does, and he rejoices at having escaped the tyranny of the darkroom with its fixer smells, endlessly long print washing and time dedicated to fine-spotting his enlargements. In fact he says he misses absolutely none of that, except the frisson of not knowing what his results will be on the spot when he shoots an image. also the fun of shooting with is Leica iiig (which he still does, in a limited way).

He believes that the entire photo industry is now firmly poised on a great abyss - the time for mass (and massive) changes when the masses of once-dedicated film shooters give up on analog and defect to the big D. Firmly convinced that this is about to happen, he insists that NOW is the time for us to offload our film cameras while we can still get quite decent prices for them.

I tend to both agree and disagree (another hybrid Sagittarian trait). Certainly film prices here in Australia are so ridiculously high as to put off most older photographers who traditionally keep to a sensible budget but now find the costs of film and darkroom supplies so inflated as to be off-putting. Many of my friends (who are in their 60s and 70s and on reduced incomes but still share my love of older cameras and traditional darkrooms) agree with this sad summing up. If anything destroys the future of film shooting here in the Antipodes, it will be the price of film.

I got around this to some extent by hoarding in the late 2009 but am now almost out of chemistry and 35mm films (my remaining stocks of refrigerated 120 films would put your average camera shop circa 2005 to shame). Having recently relocated from Tasmania to Melbourne, last week I ventured into my favorite retail photo center to buy fresh developer and fixer and other odd bits of darkroom chemistry, and all but lost bowel control in shock when I realized the high prices for anything.

Fortunately I do my own D&P, as the same retailer wants the price of a kidney for processing one roll of slide film and two fingers from one's hand for color negative. And New Zealand prices it seems are up to 50% higher. Ooch!

So my query. Do you believe that NOW is the time to sell our stores of unused cameras? Will prices for secondhand gear crash to rock-bottom in the near future? With environmental destruction, climate change and all the other awfuls the media tells us are waiting at the end of the street, will film become as rare (and as expensive as) dinosaurs' teeth in the not-too-distant distance?

in 2012 I had >50-60 cameras but I'm now down to a more sensible but still oversupply of <20.

My Nikkormats and Nikkor lenses are worth only cents on the dollar and prices have not improved since 2010. My Contax G equipment would sell at the same prices or a little better as in 2012. Rolleiflex (oddly, not Rolleicords, which I consider as as good as the 'flexes) prices in Oz have skyrocketed and some Ebay sellers want megabucks for well-worn 1950s Automats with dents and missing bits. German 6x6 folders still command reasonable prices on the same auction site.

I've noted that, as for most overpriced things on Ebay, not much seems to sell. Now and then a pigeon bits the poison hook but on the auction saes are stagnant.

Bearing in mind what I said about Satan's Advocacy, what are your thoughts about all this?

whoever can afford to live in Melbourne can certainly afford to buy film.

rayonline_nz · May 9, 2019

I live in NZ. Yes a roll of slide film cost $25NZ to develop, no one does slide mounting for a good 5 or 10yrs now. C41 developing cost $9-10NZ. So that is about $17USD and $6-7USD resp. I basically import my film from the USA ie B&H / Freestyle and I export and use a USA lab for slide film. C41 is close enough to not do that plus I don't shoot much C41. B/w I do myself I might look into importing the powder developer if the postage is OK. A roll of 35mm slides can cost $40-45NZ a roll that is $25-30US.

For me basically? I used to shoot mainly slides. Seeing now what digital cameras are capable of and what most film shooters are using, I might join them and that is, shoot b/w film and the odd C41. I find the dynamic range etc .. difficult to shoot slides anytime I want. A lot of what I shoot are also just snapshots and so it gets expensive also the fact I live in NZ. Unlike many of you guys per say 20 rolls of film I also pay a total of $70US for postal to the USA and postal back. I think with 10 rolls of 35mm or medium format, it breakevens with postal included, anything more than 10 rolls is cheaper to send away but it does mean I have to collect my film up. Shoot it and store in freezer for a 1yr and then sent it away so a lot of what I shoot I won't see until 12 months AFTER. The good USA labs I find are cleaner.

For the value I think there will always be expensive cameras like the XPAN and the Mamiya 7ii. For anything else if at all, a marginal increase nothing significant. The RB67 gear are cheap prob most see them as bulky, but even Hasselblad V are quite cheap than what they used to be. However; eventually the value of all equipment would fall IMO unless you have a limited edition item. There is also so much what ie younger people might enjoy with film and then they might get tired of it and some other trend starts up.

Film photography for me always tend to be a debate and compromise. If I was going out myself fine. If I am with others, me taking too long, film photography doesn't gel well with others. Also if I shoot 2 rolls at a session, well they all are under the same lighting condition ... And as a use, at the end of the day most people are just going to look at it for 3 sec perhaps 5 sec then it's just my own hobby that I do with myself. Yes, I could shoot 35mm format but still at the end it's just me, no other friends / family I know cares about it.

rayonline_nz · May 9, 2019

Definitely sell it, if it is not used. You could wait some years and then who know what would happen and esp with the long term. Would this take up of film photography continue and would the film cameras continue after people have their cameras. You could just put it on an stockmarket index.

rayonline_nz · May 9, 2019

Edward Romero said:
My wife has her Nikon DSLR which I really can’t stand but she loves it.

You're lucky to know someone close who is interested in photography. Many people won't even want to carry that boat anchor.

Ste_S · May 9, 2019

Agulliver said:
Most people even gave up using cameras for phones a few years ago and the market has already adjusted to reflect that.

I'm more or less just using a phone now as my only digital camera. Quality is great for my needs, especially 'Noir' on iPhone which does a nice contrasty B&W jpg.
Phones are also indispensable when I'm out shooting medium format film, use it to meter and to do test shots where perhaps people would have used Polaroid before.

Kodachromeguy · May 9, 2019

Rayon, your issue with developing slide film rings familiar. I grew up in Greece after the civil war ended. My father used Kodachrome slide film. To get it developed, he would give the roll or rolls to another American from the company or circle of acquaintances who was flying back to USA. That person would send the film to Kodak when he was in USA. Later, he or another company co-worker would bring the film back to us when he returned to Greece. Turnaround: 6 months or so. None of that instant gratitude or chimping back then.

https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2014/01/recovering-and-rebuilding-athens-in-1953.html

CMoore · May 29, 2019

I have two Canon AT-1 that i never use anymore. I guess it is time to take a look at Ebay and see if they are "Worth" selling or if i should just donate them to my local college.

msage · May 29, 2019

Edward Romero said:
If you like everything done for you then go digital and sell off everything. Myself I love to use my hand held meters, do my own focusing and choose my own aperture and shutter speed. Using filters for different effects and developing and printing my own prints. Using digital is for snap shots like using cell phone. For pure enjoyment shoot film and that is a hobby we all love. My wife has her Nikon DSLR which I really can’t stand but she loves it.
With your old equipment sell it or start collecting old cameras like myself. I have around thirty cameras in a lighted display case and use 5 different medium format cameras one dating back to 1917 and still kicking.

I also enjoy using hand held meters, focusing, choosing aperture & shutter speed and I use filters often. I use all of these on my digital camera (and film camera also)! What is forcing you alter your shooting style when using a digital camera?

Berkeley Mike · Jun 8, 2019

I'm with msage on this. Add to that, on digital cameras, I use manual focusing lenses with depth of field scales for critical DoF.

Photography is all about the best exposure for the capture medium to serve your purposes. I use neither color filters on a lens (unless it is a polarizer) nor color filter or BW emulation in-camera. Why would I want to mitigate my exposure? The development process, with much more capable tools on a computer, is the best place to do that work.

I have sold or given away all of my film cameras except the ones that sit in my bookshelves or chair rails as objects of curiosity or my reminiscence.

RPC · Jun 8, 2019

I shoot film and get high quality images including great darkroom prints without using computer or other tools, and glad of it. Much more enjoyable working around in the darkroom than sitting at a computer; I do that enough for other things.

I'll keep my film cameras and use them; stick with what works and don't fix it if it ain't broken. For those who love working a lot with computers and correcting and manipulating their images on them, and many seem to need to, digital is the perfect medium.

Berkeley Mike · Jun 8, 2019

I'm glad you enjoy the darkroom. I find its' facility and limitations unfulfilling. I can do far more in my digital development process with more control and benefit in much less time. Manipulation? That is a pretty dismissive term. It is a development process as much as a darkroom and chemistry is and suffers in the same way when done badly or to extremes.

Skeeterfx20 · Jun 8, 2019

Is it time to sell them? I can't answer that for you. I couldn't answer it back in the early 2000's and I certainly can't answer it 20 years later. I think you really will know that answer. Im strange since I have been buying for the past 20 years. I guess you either like film or you dont. I have had a lot of people try to tell me how slow and frustrating darkroom work is. I just figured those people never could succeed in the darkroom and were pretty good with digital. So be it, I'm pretty good in the darkroom and no so good with the other. That doesn't make the other bad.

So should you sell your cameras?

My simple answer is use what you like and that will lead you to your answer.

Berkeley Mike · Jun 8, 2019

Darkrooms were my strength entering higher-level commercial work in 1982. I fought against digital until about 1999 because I was successful with film. Commercial pressures and digital experience led me to to embrace digital work. One I saw the time/quality/cost advantages it was all over.

StepheKoontz · Jun 8, 2019

I collect and use film cameras. Some get more use than others. I doubt I would sell any of them as I don't buy cameras I don't at least enjoy looking at in my collection.

Theo Sulphate · Jun 8, 2019

What one keeps and what one sells depends on which process is more enjoyable. It's totally subjective.

I love the design and operation of film cameras and the look of film images.

Although I'm extremely good at digital editing and manipulation - and also find it rewarding - when working with film I want stay with the film process to the finished print. My work in the darkroom and in printing is mediocre or average, but I do it to learn and I'm satisfied knowing I'm participating in a process that's over 100 years old.

anthonym3 · Jun 8, 2019

CMoore said:
I have two Canon AT-1 that i never use anymore. I guess it is time to take a look at Ebay and see if they are "Worth" selling or if i should just donate them to my local college.

anthonym3 · Jun 8, 2019

I used to buy 35mm film cameras at GOODWILL and yard sales and donate them to schools. I hadn't done so for the past five years having relocated several times for business reasons. A few weeks ago I contacted the art department at the high school in my new town to ask if film cameras were of interest.I was informed that the school no longer had a darkroom and the students used digital cameras.SAD!

RPC · Jun 9, 2019

I

Berkeley Mike said:
One I saw the time/quality/cost advantages it was all over.

Film images, even color, can be developed and printed quite fast with today's relatively simple processes in a home darkroom. I see no better quality with digital, especially compared to the larger film formats and cost cannot be better if you are already set up to do film and have to spend money to buy all new equipment, i.e. digital cameras, software, printers, etc.; it just makes no sense to me.

My film cameras and darkroom will stay right where they are.

rayonline_nz · Jun 9, 2019

RPC said:
I

Film images, even color, can be developed and printed quite fast with today's relatively simple processes in a home darkroom. I see no better quality with digital, especially compared to the larger film formats and cost cannot be better if you are already set up to do film and have to spend money to buy all new equipment, i.e. digital cameras, software, printers, etc.; it just makes no sense to me.

My film cameras and darkroom will stay right where they are.

Person mentioned about commercial. I can see that, that's maybe what clients expect these days. You adapt or your business do or die. Even with friends and family and obviously they are not into photography it's also what they expect as well, quick turn around and onto social media.

To be fair most people in general are going to have a digital camera already or their phone, they would have their computers (with software) and printers many / majority would outsource that. i think it would be quite uncommon that a person has a film camera but no digital camera - from the generation population.

donkee · Jun 9, 2019

You either enjoy shooting, developing, and printing or you don't. Seems you are moving to the don't category so sell it all off. I have a bunch of stuff to move but it isn't because I am moving to digital, I just have too much and need to sell or trade for items I need or will use. I have 3 digital cameras that I use when I need something right away, testing ideas, or for the web. My darkroom stuff is packed into boxes for the move to a dedicated area, not just a corner of the basement, so digital is what I have been using mostly while the room gets new drywall, flooring, and plumbing. As long as there is film I will be using it and enjoying the peace, quiet, and smells of the darkroom not to mention I still feel the magic of a print appearing in the developing tray......

anthonym3 · Jun 9, 2019

I am amused when I see reports of "wonderful,fantastic" shots of wildlife,then the article goes on to say the "photographer" used a digital "camera". DIGITAL ,aim camera press shutter button,make hundreds if not thousands of images in program mode with no thought of composition,shutter speed depth of field,etc,choose the best shots win awards.No better than the old point and shoot film cameras.

RPC · Jun 9, 2019

rayonline_nz said:
To be fair most people in general are going to have a digital camera already or their phone, they would have their computers (with software) and printers many / majority would outsource that. i think it would be quite uncommon that a person has a film camera but no digital camera - from the generation population.

Maybe, but a phone, or snapshot quality camera and cheap printer would not cut it for serious photography, already having image processing software is iffy, and with outsourcing, one would lose control. A fair amount of money is likely going to have to be spent if darkroom quality results are to be maintained when switching to digital.

rayonline_nz said:
Person mentioned about commercial.

His profile says he shoots only digital so I would assume it is personal with him as well.

RPC · Jun 9, 2019

anthonym3 said:
I am amused when I see reports of "wonderful,fantastic" shots of wildlife,then the article goes on to say the "photographer" used a digital "camera". DIGITAL ,aim camera press shutter button,make hundreds if not thousands of images in program mode with no thought of composition,shutter speed depth of field,etc,choose the best shots win awards.No better than the old point and shoot film cameras.

Not only that but one has no idea just how photoshopped and manipulated an image is to look the way it does. Sadly, it seems today that is becoming more and more a part of the photographic process. Real or fake? We're not sure.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2019

anthonym3 said:
I am amused when I see reports of "wonderful,fantastic" shots of wildlife,then the article goes on to say the "photographer" used a digital "camera". DIGITAL ,aim camera press shutter button,make hundreds if not thousands of images in program mode with no thought of composition,shutter speed depth of field,etc,choose the best shots win awards.No better than the old point and shoot film cameras.

Clearly you haven't met some of the very fine photographers I know who take excellent wildlife photographs using digital equipment.
Yes they tend to take more photographs then film photographers, but wildlife photography is still a demanding genre, and still takes skill and judgment to consistently obtain high quality results.
There are some technical advantages of digital that make it advantageous to use for wildlife photography - primarily high ISO performance and high resolution from smaller sensors - but it is just as capable of yielding lousy results as film is.

Is now the time to sell our film cameras?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency