Is Maco a film manufacturer?

PHOTOTONE · Dec 4, 2006

I was wondering if the firm of Macco, or Roelli/Macco is actually a film manufacturer, or has ever been a film manufacturer, or have they just been a "converter", packaging and spooling bulk rolls made elsewhere?

Phototone

uraniumnitrate · Dec 4, 2006

Rollei/maco is using a name of the an old camera brand name (wonderful they are still today) and manufacturing in China but giving the ipression that they are a German company. It's sells better! Bogus I would say!

Foma might be what they say manufactured in Chez Republic!
But wakening up so far because thay went out of business! Also they try to eshtablish themself on old stories but I'm going to the republic in january and I'm going to find out the thruth!

So nowadays you never know because it's kept well in secret! It's just a usual maneymaking business with out resposibility against you who is the user! There is one real manufacturer I know in EC and it's Forte in Hungary! Their products don't need to be introduced as they manufacture the same film as kodak did before they rationalize all silver out of the film! It was an old Kodak company before the war and the recepie is the same! And they are just keep on producig a nice quality in films and papers

ath · Dec 4, 2006

Hello Phototone,

I would say both (sort of). They are known for relabelling (e.g. the retro 100+400 series which was Agfa stock) but lately they have started to introduce films, which are coated for them (e.g. the CN scanfilm without mask or the Rollei Pan 25). Maco themself are not able to coat or cut or spool afaik, they outsource these works. I think, they outsource the engineering as well.

The markting is made by Maco themself and best ignored unless you want to end up with disappointment.

Regards,
Andreas

PHOTOTONE · Dec 4, 2006

It is so confusing. On the Ultrafine Photo Warehouse catalog, they show a b/w film they claim is "made" by Maco for Mitsubishi. I know Mitsubishi made photo materials themselves in the not too distant past.

I am certainly not advocating Maco, I just want to clear up what to me is confusing.

Phototone

Roger Hicks · Dec 4, 2006

PHOTOTONE said:
I am certainly not advocating Maco, I just want to clear up what to me is confusing.

The confusion is assiduously promoted by Maco (one 'c' only).

1 Maco does not appear to own any coating lines, but they do seem to have their own conversion plant in Germany.

2 Many -- perhaps all -- Maco/Rollei films are existing films repackaged or converted by Maco. Some may be specially coated, but there is no strong evidence for this.

3 Despite the above, most of the Maco/Rollei film line are in fact excellent films, though the suppporting technical information almost invariably leaves a lot to be desired, not least because of their willful confusion of ISO/EI. Their ScanFilm is the latest I have tried: a wonderful 'romantic' film (big grain, low sharpness, very warm colour) which I like very much -- but next to (say) Portra 400, grainy and unsharp. It is reputedly a Gevaert aerial film, bought in pancakes from Gevaert in Belgium and converted in Germany.

ScanFilm prompted a module I am currently working on for The Photo School at www.rogerandfrances.com on film 'signatures'.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

Alan Johnson · Dec 4, 2006

Maco is not mentioned on the following site but I have seen reports that some of their films originate from Filmotec.To me it reads as though they probably coat there:
www.filmotec.de/English_Site/english_site.html

timeUnit · Dec 5, 2006

ath said:
Hello Phototone,

I would say both (sort of). They are known for relabelling (e.g. the retro 100+400 series which was Agfa stock) but lately they have started to introduce films, which are coated for them (e.g. the CN scanfilm without mask or the Rollei Pan 25). Maco themself are not able to coat or cut or spool afaik, they outsource these works. I think, they outsource the engineering as well.

The markting is made by Maco themself and best ignored unless you want to end up with disappointment.

Regards,
Andreas

I must say that their IR-film is totally unique as it's available even in 4x5 sheets. I have used it only once, but it has not dissapointed me.

uraniumnitrate · Dec 5, 2006

timeUnit said:
I must say that their IR-film is totally unique as it's available even in 4x5 sheets. I have used it only once, but it has not dissapointed me.

Nowadays yes because no one manufacture those any longer! I think konica was the last one to give it up on 120 rolls but kodak probobly still have some 135mm production! Kodak had sheets a long time ago but I do beleive it went out of production in the middle of 80's! I don't know about Ilford if they hadve the extended (not thrully IR) still in production this went went up to 790 Nm or so if I remember right!!

percepts · Dec 5, 2006

goto their website and judge for yourself whether their products are the same as anyone elses.

http://www.mahn.net/

ivan73 · Dec 5, 2006

uraniumnitrate said:
There is one real manufacturer I know in EC and it's Forte in Hungary! Their products don't need to be introduced as they manufacture the same film as kodak did before they rationalize all silver out of the film!

The Foma company is another manufacturer in the EC/EU (Czech Republic) and Ilford/Harman as well (UK)....

uraniumnitrate · Dec 5, 2006

ivan73 said:
The Foma company is another manufacturer in the EC/EU (Czech Republic) and Ilford/Harman as well (UK)....

Yeah! I forgot Ilford but I where talk about them today! Foma is not a manufacturer at least there isn't any indications that they are coating! I'm going to the Chez republic in January as I staed before and I will check it out! The story they give us is good but Foma where out of business and it's possible that the name had been brought! Also it's possible that the old Orwo factory coating film to them!
I have mailed the company run under other name but no answer come!

uraniumnitrate · Dec 5, 2006

percepts said:
goto their website and judge for yourself whether their products are the same as anyone elses.

http://www.mahn.net/

Yes, and what? A building don't mean anything! I've got an office and don't manufacture anythig! As far as I know! Show me the inside, the mashines! Those I have seen from Kodak, Agfa, Forte, Fuji, Ilford or Konica!! Than I beleive!

WRSchmalfuss · Dec 6, 2006

MACO films made in China?

MACO PHOTO PRODUCTS, Hamburg/Germany is since many years the exclusive partner in selling of original LUCKPAN B&W films for Europe. In practically each European country, innumerable of these low cost films are bought, particulary by pupil/students. The quality of the film elmulsion is fantastic well, its KODAK license! The packaging and the film substrate come of rather to a technology as before 25 years ago, usual in Europe. Briefly: LUCKYPAN B&W films are very popular films, which are imported exclusively by MACO, Hamburg, adn driven out by prominent importers in almost any European countries.

uraniumnitrate said:
Rollei/maco is using a name of the an old camera brand name (wonderful they are still today) and manufacturing in China but giving the ipression that they are a German company. It's sells better! Bogus I would say!

Foma might be what they say manufactured in Chez Republic!
But wakening up so far because thay went out of business! Also they try to eshtablish themself on old stories but I'm going to the republic in january and I'm going to find out the thruth!

So nowadays you never know because it's kept well in secret! It's just a usual maneymaking business with out resposibility against you who is the user! There is one real manufacturer I know in EC and it's Forte in Hungary! Their products don't need to be introduced as they manufacture the same film as kodak did before they rationalize all silver out of the film! It was an old Kodak company before the war and the recepie is the same! And they are just keep on producig a nice quality in films and papers

uraniumnitrate · Dec 6, 2006

WRSchmalfuss said:
MACO PHOTO PRODUCTS, Hamburg/Germany is since many years the exclusive partner in selling of original LUCKPAN B&W films for Europe. In practically each European country, innumerable of these low cost films are bought, particulary by pupil/students. The quality of the film elmulsion is fantastic well, its KODAK license! The packaging and the film substrate come of rather to a technology as before 25 years ago, usual in Europe. Briefly: LUCKYPAN B&W films are very popular films, which are imported exclusively by MACO, Hamburg, adn driven out by prominent importers in almost any European countries.

Keep the bull! Imported from where? Luckypan or Luckpan??? that is! Untill you not coming with any evidence all information is useless! So get me an answer! Kodak License?????? I would like ask Mr photo engineer in Rochester about this! If You out there Mr Rochester can you tell something about this?

And you see what happens when a lots of manufacturer "re-labelling manufacturer that is I'm talking about!") suddenly aperes from death? And still the question of the day is who made what and where? Real manufacturer that is I'm talking about!

timeUnit · Dec 6, 2006

chill out, mr uranium...

Fotohuis · Dec 6, 2006

Real manufacturer that is I'm talking about!

I suppose then that you are not aware that Ilford and Kodak are producing a lot of their chemicals by Champion (in Spain ?). So that means in your definition that both are NOT real manufacturers.

Or Amaloco photochemicals is using Variprof photo paper under OEM (Ilford) and is producing only chemicals (which their name also suggested ) and is overall in YOUR definition no real manufacturer.
Tetenal: idem ditto.

Maco is selling under the Rollei/Maco brand and has ONE external OEM film product from former Agfa Photo (they bought all master rolls), APX emulsion, sold under Retro 100/400 film.
They have 5 production locations through Europe for producing film, slitting, coating, confectioning a.s.o.

If you have ever been in Hradec Kralové (Czech Republic), the production location from Foma S.R.O.; you should know what they are producing overthere. (I have been there in 2003, so please do not tell me fairy-tales)

best regards,

Robert

uraniumnitrate · Dec 6, 2006

Fotohuis said:
If you have ever been in Hradec Kralové (Czech Republic), the production location from Foma S.R.O.; you should know what they are producing overthere. (I have been there in 2003, so please do not tell me fairy-tales)

best regards,

Robert

No I'm not aware of anything any longer :confused: that's why all the questions! I'm not telling any fairy tales either but I do see some of my friends lost their life time images because thing are as they are! I had very bad experience with Efke and of course I just don't wanna buy film from unexperienced manufacturer who don't know what they are doing! And if you don't do it yourself as a manufacturer than you depend on others! Do you get me? And if those others dont do it right than its you who is sitting on the flor!
I don want anybody experiment on me! Its better if they do it on you so I can learn of your faliure!

And as I told here before I'm going to the Chez republic in January and I will see it myself!

Fotohuis · Dec 6, 2006

Well I am sorry but then I also have to inform you that Efke is also doing OEM business and therefore you can have one of their products also in other labeled packings. This is quite normal in this kind of industry.

regards,

Robert

uraniumnitrate · Dec 6, 2006

Fotohuis said:
Well I am sorry but then I also have to inform you that Efke is also doing OEM business and therefore you can have one of their products also in other labeled packings. This is quite normal in this kind of industry.

regards,

Robert

Now you get me! That’s exactly why I want to know things because Agfa disappeared and open a hole in my professional activity! You know some? With paper (prints) you can experiment as much as you want or you like, if you don't like it than you throw it away. Negative is a totally different thing!!!!!!!! That’s your original and it shouldn't made on some shit product (sorry for my worlds but I'm getting tired of this) It should made on a rich in silver well manufactured well baked emulsion! It's your contrast on the shadows and on highlights and it's got a higher archival standard too as the thinner silver fatigue emulsion oxidize faster! So who is telling fairy-tales now?

I think all manufacturers of film should state how much silver they have baked into the emulsion per quadrate inch and quadrate centimeter! It should be a low on this!

Anyway I'm off from here as I have lost interest!

Fotohuis · Dec 6, 2006

Negative is a totally different thing!!!!!!!! Thats your original and it shouldn't made on some shit product

So far I agree with you.
I am not selling sh** products due to the fact I am all using them myself.

About defects in film material: That's really disappointing of course but even an A+ manufacturer can have this problem sometimes. Nobody is perfect and also no product is perfect but I agree that reliability is sometimes very important.

Sorry if I have upset you.:rolleyes:

George Papantoniou · Dec 6, 2006

I think (my dear European friends) that we should start getting over the "relabeling phobia" complex. I too, was against relabeling but lately I found out that this is the only way for film photography to go on and keep the products we all need for our photographic work in production. Bergger, Tetenal and Maco might just do relabeling (they comission other companies to fabricate their products for them), that's OK with me, as long as they manage to keep their film-photography materials available to me. Why do you care so much if Maco sells film that is made in Croatia, China or somewhere else ? I agree that you should care that your film or paper is good and the quality remains stable through time and different batches, or even that the products that you buy are fabricated by a company that pays its employes well enough (not a "sweatshop company") and follows basic ethical rules (this concern might stop me from buying Chinese film, but I am not sure whether "Lucky" is an unethical company. Do you have such evidence?). For what I know, any American or even European company (especially some Eastern European ones, where environmental - and other - rules are not so strict - yet -) might be doing some harm to the environment or might treat its employes wrongly.
Many Maco products that I have tried were quite good, some were not that super. Their Ortho film (made by Efke, I guess) was great. The Agfa films, well, they're Agfa films. Use them as long as they'll last... I haven't tried it yet but they say that their IR film is great.
Try them out, then choose what you want to use and what not. Otherwise, where is the problem ?
If you're so concerned with quality control, then only use Ilford and Kodak films and stop whining about the rest.

Fotohuis · Dec 6, 2006

If you're so concerned with quality control, then only use Ilford and Kodak films

Dangerous expression due to the fact over more years the amount of defects on Fujifilm is less then Ilford + Kodak together. :confused:

wirehead · Dec 6, 2006

The problem with relabeling is that you don't have any assurances of supply.

If there's some maco, bergger, etc. film I like, I'm going to be really pissed if it was really a roll of Agfa that there's no way for them to make more of, even if they wanted to.

Fotohuis · Dec 6, 2006

I'm going to be really pissed if it was really a roll of Agfa that there's no way for them to make more of

Rollei/Maco will be able to produce APX again if the demand is high enough to produce in an economical way at the Gevaert plant in Belgium.

About OEM: Indeed you're never sure what REALLY is in the packing. For professionals also not really attractive but here the price of a product is normally less important. Real professionals are going for quality.

Photo Engineer · Dec 6, 2006

Fotohuis said:
Dangerous expression due to the fact over more years the amount of defects on Fujifilm is less then Ilford + Kodak together. :confused:

Not only does this not make sense, but you have nothing to support any kind of statement like this regarding defects. It says nothing of either Kodak or Ilford, and could put the bulk of the defects on either.

I have seen very few reports about defects any of the 3 companies, and they are about evenly matched in number. I have seen many reports of defects from manufacturers other than the big 3.

PE

Is Maco a film manufacturer?

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