is LF really complicated?

paul_c5x4 · Feb 20, 2011

Convert 180mm to inches = 7", the bellows draw is already measured in inches = 16"
Think in terms of F stops, difference between f7 and f16 = 2 1/3 stops.

Tom Stanworth · Feb 20, 2011

No, it is not.

If you want to keep it simple, you can. You don't need to go nuts like some people do, if weighing chemicals, developing by inspection (your Beyond The Zone System negs) if you dont want to.

There ar cameras out there with few movements for field users and these make the process of shooting a lot easier IMO (i.e. none folding cameras).

stradibarrius · Feb 20, 2011

paul_c5x4 said:
Convert 180mm to inches = 7", the bellows draw is already measured in inches = 16"
Think in terms of F stops, difference between f7 and f16 = 3 1/3 stops.

Paul I just found a very similar method on the web and it seems to good to be true!!!

I am confused by 3 1/3??? Maybe it is too early in the AM for me but how is f/7 to f/16 3 1/3 stops?

paul_c5x4 · Feb 20, 2011

The series I used was:

f5.6 6.3 7.1 f8 9 10 f11 13 14 f16

Whole F stops indicated by an f, other numbers, third stops.

I did the whole "square this, add that" the first time I attempted doing a macro shot. Aside from making my head hurt, the correction came out close enough to the above sequence. No need to make things complicated, so I now have a cloth tailors tape sewn to my darkcloth and the F stop series from 3.5 to f32 written down in a notebook.

stradibarrius · Feb 20, 2011

paul_c5x4 said:
The series I used was:

f5.6 6.3 7.1 f8 9 10 f11 13 14 f16

Whole F stops indicated by an f, other numbers, third stops.

I did the whole "square this, add that" the first time I attempted doing a macro shot. Aside from making my head hurt, the correction came out close enough to the above sequence. No need to make things complicated, so I now have a cloth tailors tape sewn to my darkcloth and the F stop series from 3.5 to f32 written down in a notebook.

Paul thanks for helping me understand this but I must be missing something??
In the example there is a 1/3 stop step from f/7 (7.1) to f/8 then one full stop to f/ 11 then one more full stop to f/16 so is that not 2 1/3 stops?

paul_c5x4 · Feb 20, 2011

err...ummm... Brain not fully in gear, I'd only just woken up

stradibarrius · Feb 20, 2011

So did you mean to say 2 1/3 stops? Your method clicks in my feeble mind so I want to put it to the test.

paul_c5x4 · Feb 20, 2011

It should indeed have read 2 1/3 stops (original post edited).

stradibarrius · Feb 20, 2011

Thanks Paul! I am just going to give it a try and see if it works.

Roger Thoms · Feb 20, 2011

stradibarrius said:
Thanks Paul! I am just going to give it a try and see if it works.

It works!

Roger

werra · Feb 20, 2011

Yes, LF is complicated. Made such an error today that I was not even being able to think about being possible. Loaded 2 18x24cm sheets of film into Jobo drum. The usual routine for developing the film of such a dimensions for me. The unusual part was being clever enough to load the sheets ontop each other, into same grooves of format holder. So you can imagine the result
Luckily the scene is re-shootable

Tervuren · Feb 20, 2011

like many people who mentioned it earlier, this could be as simple if not simpler than shooting any point and shot, (you ask any of the guys who were shooting for newspapers in the yesteryears with such a icons as Graflex or similar field cameras, they were shooting as fast if not faster than any new gadget out there, yet to see anyone match their work), or as complicated as you want to make it, may be it was my beginner's luck or the fact that I didn't know what I was doing, I ended up with complete Graflex set up for next to nothing, and never looked back, there is something magical about the film camera, especially this particular camera, while I went out to acquire many more like it and upgraded to others, but there is something addictive about working with this camera and format, and as for the doing math, since my math is lousy to start with, I never bothered with it, I guess it holds true my belief, If I left it alone, that will leave me alone as well. and not once had major problem, while I have made almost every major mistake mentioned earlier, from developing unexposed film, to double exposing the same sheet, as well as accidentally opening the fresh box of film in daylight, but never doing math or calculation was a major issue, partly due to the fact I bought one of these just to be sure, http://www.calumetphoto.com/1/1/2844-exposure-calculator-calumet.html while used it from time to time, but this issue of calculation and doing math was never so much of problem as other technical issues, like one famous photographer said it eloquently, " think more and shoot less " and with the price of film and processing you will learn really quick and you will love it, like the most of us did. and even if you happen not to like it, then there won't be any regret or sorrow for trying, at least you can look back and say oh well I gave it shot and didn't like it. and if you do happen to like it as I am almost sure you will, you will get a lifetime of joy and pleasure out of it.

stradibarrius · Feb 20, 2011

Well after all of my questions I went down to my little studio area took measurements, used my loupe to focus, took my meter reading, cocked my shutter, inserted the film holder pressed the shuuter release and realized I had forgot to make my Exposure compensation adjustment....sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself!

bdial · Feb 20, 2011

Hmm, never done that....

The good news is that if you under exposed (most likely), and are working with a static subject, just figure out how much more light you need and give it another shot. Works best if you haven't put the dark-slide in yet, if you removed the holder, forget it though.

stradibarrius · Feb 20, 2011

I think I will just try to learn something about processing now...I am just going to develop it like 400. that would be pushing it two stops.

sly · Feb 23, 2011

Strad - did that myself just a couple of weeks ago - figured out the bellows factor, and then forgot to apply it. Did it not once, but twice with in a couple of days. I doubled the development time, and the negs are printable. Shadows lack much detail, but highlights are fine.

Toffle · Jul 8, 2011

Today... two sheets of 8x10...

Sheet #1
I did everything right... (as far as I could tell, given the fact that I am an idiot. ) I did all my focusing, calculations and corrections, measured, metered and compensated till I was blue in the face. I even test fired the shutter twice before I pulled the darkslide. Somewhere between the test firing and the darkslide, the knurled knob on my release cable slipped, so as soon as I cocked the shutter, it snapped shut. I cocked agian... snapped shut... wait a minute!It snapped OPEN and shut. ARGH! If there is an image to use, it will be double/over exposed on that one.

Sheet #2
I'm much more careful this time and nail the process from beginning to end... almost. Somehow the darkslide is uncooperative and will not go back in the final half inch. This has never happened to me. Try and try again, the darkslide will not cooperate. I draped my darkcloth over the slide as I removed it, and headed straight for my studio, where I completed the task in darkness. The slide is fine now, but I suspect that my shot may have suffered in my struggles.

I now have six sheets of 8x10 awaiting development and I am certain that there is a fundamental flaw with each one. Isn't large format fun?

Neanderman · Jul 8, 2011

Sounds like maybe the holder wasn't in the camera all the way and that, when you pulled the darkslide, it allowed the loading flap to open just enough that the darkslide wouldn't go in.

Just one more little thing to learn to check for!

Toffle · Jul 8, 2011

Neanderman said:
Sounds like maybe the holder wasn't in the camera all the way and that, when you pulled the darkslide, it allowed the loading flap to open just enough that the darkslide wouldn't go in.

Just one more little thing to learn to check for!

That's what I would have thought too, but it's the first thing I checked. I've only used that holder a couple of times, though. I took note of which side it was and I will check it out before I load it again... and cross my fingers when I use it. (I know it's harder to use large format with fingers crossed, but I know some people who swear by it... I've also heard it helps to bite down a bit on the corner of your lip or your tongue when snapping the shutter. )

atlcruiser · Jul 9, 2011

Hi barry,
I drank the LF kool aid and it is all downhill from here I have found it can be very complicated if I want it to be. I have a tendency to over complicate things if at all possible.

I used to see LF as some sort of mystic art...i would read posts on LFF and marvel at the minutiae that seemed to be involved.

In April I did a workshop with Michael and Paula and suddenly I realized that it is not all that complicated or difficult at all. Of course I was working with folks who had done this for 30-40 years professionally but I suddenly saw the LF camera as a tool to realize a vision not a end unto itself.

There are some folks that enjoy the complexity that can be worked into LF while others just do it. In many ways it reminds me of fly fishing; another "complicated" art. Many folks are involved with the design and tying of flies; what they look like, where they live, what materials to use, what grass skirt to wear when tying the fly...others just want to go out and catch fish on a fly rod. Either approach is valid.

The biggest help for me was to shoot film...lots of it and to process that film immediately and review my notes while looking at the scan or neg. I bought a pile of shanghai 4x5 and went to town. Being able to immediately process the film at home was a big help.

We should hook up soon; on the 23rd we have a meeting in atlanta of our group. You and I could mess around with the 810 a bit if you like. I am far from an expert but i try hard.

sly · Jul 9, 2011

Toffle said:
.... I've also heard it helps to bite down a bit on the corner of your lip or your tongue when snapping the shutter. )

There's my problem!!! I've been sticking my tongue out the corner of my mouth rather than biting it!!

Sirius Glass · Jul 9, 2011

Just do not fall into the trap: After I buy this lens, I will be done buying lenses.

A Sabai · Jul 9, 2011

LF can be as simple as any manual slr with a tilt shift lens. You don't have to use the tilt shift until you want to learn it, and you may never decide it is for you. Think of all those old press photos where those functions were never engaged. There is no denying it is clumsier however, and anytime you have to deal with dark slides etc. there is always the chance of fogging and double exposures, but I've never done any of those things

mhcfires · Jul 9, 2011

Sirius Glass said:
Just do not fall into the trap: After I buy this lens, I will be done buying lenses.

Yeah, right.

m

Discoman · Jul 10, 2011

It can be. It doesn't need to be. So far I personally have had no problem using basic daylight exposure with a speed graflex outside. Studio requires some more work, but in my experience, a lot of outdoor or indoor natural light is just experience. Find one film you love and stick to it, and 99% of your work you can just thinkabout, set, and shoot. Unless you do reproductions or long extension work or long exposure, all the tables and nomographs and reciprocity settings aren't really going to intrude into your work.
Good luck.

is LF really complicated?

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