is LF really complicated?

[Paul Sorensen]

LF is less complicated than trying to use a Mamiya 645 camera with a waist-level finder for portraits.

Try it, you will see .

Yeah, I got a prism really fast after trying this.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

LF is less complicated than trying to use a Mamiya 645 camera with a waist-level finder for portraits.

Try it, you will see .

Especially if you want the frame vertical and your choice is the Mamiya 645 1000S. Takes a fair bit of acrobatics.

Re: OP

I gave up on 4x5 shooting because I just couldn't shoot intuitively, you know react to a moment of wonderfulness. By the time the camera was set up, focused, and ready to go, the moments had gone.

So, it depends on the subject matter. With controlled lighting and still life or product photographs, a 4x5 is probably hard to beat.

But doing children or pet portraits probably not so much. Unless you get one of those Graflex SLRs, of course. That's the only camera I'm drooling over that is sheet film.

 

[lxdude]

Especially if you want the frame vertical and your choice is the Mamiya 645 1000S. Takes a fair bit of acrobatics.

With it on a tripod it's not bad. Hold a small mirror next to the WL finder at a 45 degree angle to it and look straight down at it while standing to one side. The image will be right side up and corrected left to right.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Not so easy but possible

Well there is the calculating for DOF.

Mike

Sinar cameras has the ability to calculating DOF and the optimal swings and tilts. It's pretty accurate. Another way is to stop down and look at the ground glass edge to edge. When Polaroid type 55 was available, I use to use the neg to check DOF.

 

[kevcurry67]

Theres no escape....you'll only be driven mad with itch if you dont jump in!
''Using the View Camera'' by Steve Simmons is an easy, not to technical read. Plenty of pictures in there, its a good place to start the journey!

 

[Sirius Glass]

It is also nice to have a Rotating Back when shooting 4x5. The Graflex Model D is one example. I had an adapter plate made so that it now sports a Grafloc back.

Steve

 

[removed account4]

the beauty of a graflex slr is that it is a big 4x5 box camera
and no movements or additonal "stuff" that a view camera requires
pertain to the slr. i love mine, and use it more than any other camera i own

barry, be careful, once you have started, there is no turning back

john

 

[Sirius Glass]

For movements and a broader range of lenses I have a Pacemaker Speed Graphic.

Steve

 

[Toffle]

Theres no escape....you'll only be driven mad with itch if you dont jump in!
''Using the View Camera'' by Steve Simmons is an easy, not to technical read. Plenty of pictures in there, its a good place to start the journey!

still another vote for Steve Simmons...

...and another caution that you are already hooked. I only lasted a couple of years on 4x5 before I got the irresistable 8x10 call.

Don't resist... it's easier this way.

Cheers,

 

[John Kasaian]

is LF a lot more difficult than shooting MF? As much as I love photography I don't like or care for the extreme details like formulas and ratios.

No.You read a meter if you can't make a guess and set an f-stop & shutter speed (f8 and be there in Weegee speak) What you want to do beyond that is entirely up to you.

 

[Roger Thoms]

I'm surprised no one has suggested the LF forum. It has a different tone than APUG, but is a source I turn to as well. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/index.php

One of the first things I read on the LF site when I was just getting started was this wonderful list of all the things you can do wrong. I haven't done them all yet.

What NOT to do in large format ?
by Q.-Tuan Luong for the Large Format Page

There are more ways to ruin a photograph than you would think. All these potentially fatal mistakes are specific to large format, in the sense that most of them are impossible, or quite rare with 35mm and MF cameras. Here are some of them, and how to avoid making the mistake. Additional suggestions welcome.

Mistakes make while taking the photograph
lens not stopped down
shutter speed not adjusted
dark slide removed before closing the lens
holder with exposed film used
holder with no film used
camera fired with no film holder inside
dark slide not removed before the exposure
dark slide put back the wrong side
dark slide not put back
rear dark slide pulled out
vignetting due to internal blocking
vignetting due to excessive movements
vignetting due to compendium shade/filters
lack of depth of field
poor focussing
camera controls unlocked
camera shaken by the wind
subject shaken by the wind
reciprocity failure miscompensated
filter factor not taken into account
bellows factor not taken into account
wrong f-stop scale (with convertibles or Nikkor telephoto lenses)
change in light/subject not taken into account
cable release / shade showing in picture
mysterious double image with long exposure
Pre and post exposure mistakes
film loaded backwards
film misloaded
dusk got on the film
forgot at home tripod/holders/essential camera part
darkslide accidentaly opened
wrong developpment (ie color instead of B&W, or +1 instead of -1) applied to the film
flipping the light on before closing film boxes
Defective equipment
light leaks in camera or bellows
light leaks in holders
ground glass mis-alignment
film plane mis-aligned in holders
erratic shutter

Yeah I've done most of these and most more than once. Is large format complicated? Maybe but don't let that deter you cause it's a blast when it all comes together.

Roger

 

[djacobox372]

It's only as complicated as you want to make it. The one thing you REALLY have to know about is exposure compensation when focusing. The simple rule is that when focused at 1:1, you have to add two stops of exposure comp. At 1:2, you add only 1 stop. This is seldom an issue when shooting with smaller formats if you are doing landscape or even portraiture (a 4x5 portrait, even a tight headshot, is still not even 1:2 reproduction). It's pretty easy.

Exposure compensation has nothing to do with format; you'll encounter the same issues with small and medium format as well when shooting 1:1 or greater magnifications.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Exposure compensation has nothing to do with format; you'll encounter the same issues with small and medium format as well when shooting 1:1 or greater magnifications.

Actually, it does, because the larger the format, the more likely it is that you will be in the range where you have to think about exposure compensation--any time the magnification ratio is 1:10 or greater. With 35mm this is mostly macro work. With medium format it would be tabletop still lifes and tight portraits. With 4x5" or larger it gets to be anything at longish headshot distances or closer. With 8x10" it's about a 3/4 length portrait.

In other words, you can shoot 35mm and never think about exposure compensation until you do macro, but with 4x5" or larger, you're thinking about it any time you're not shooting outdoor landscapes and architecture.

 

[artonpaper]

A simple way to think about bellows extension is to compare the lens to film distance to the f-stop numbers. For instance, a 200 mm lens, with is 8 inches, is extended to 11 inches it would require a one stop exposure increase. An 11 inch lens extended to 16 inches would also require a one stop exposure increase. A 6 inch lens would be very close to the f number 5.6. When extended to 8 inches that would call for 1 stop increase. (It's always an increase, never a decrease.) A 90 mm lens, just to drive home the point, is about 2 inches, and when extended to 3 inches, which is close to f number 2.8. a one stop increase would work. This is not precise, but it works for me when I'm working on the fly. If time allows, I do the math. And I've been shooting Kodak TMY lately, which has very little reciprocity failure.

 

[Roger Thoms]

A simple way to think about bellows extension is to compare the lens to film distance to the f-stop numbers. For instance, a 200 mm lens, with is 8 inches, is extended to 11 inches it would require a one stop exposure increase. An 11 inch lens extended to 16 inches would also require a one stop exposure increase. A 6 inch lens would be very close to the f number 5.6. When extended to 8 inches that would call for 1 stop increase. (It's always an increase, never a decrease.) A 90 mm lens, just to drive home the point, is about 2 inches, and when extended to 3 inches, which is close to f number 2.8. a one stop increase would work. This is not precise, but it works for me when I'm working on the fly. If time allows, I do the math. And I've been shooting Kodak TMY lately, which has very little reciprocity failure.

I've use this method and it works great. Check your math though on to 90mm, which is more like 3.5 inches. Just for that reason I have a little conversion chart to convert my mm focal length to inches. Got it of the home page at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ Wealth of knowledge there.

Roger

 

[Steve Smith]

Check your math though on to 90mm, which is more like 3.5 inches. Just for that reason I have a little conversion chart to convert my mm focal length to inches.

That's one method. You could just use millimetres for your bellows extension instead. The units don't matter as it's just the ratio which is important.

That might be easy for me to say as I'm English so use metric and imperial measurements equally. If you are only used to one system, estimating length might not be so easy.


Steve.

 

[Dave Starr]

I'm having so much fun using my Busch Pressman 4x5 handheld with FLASHBULBS that I'm seriously considering selling my 35mm & medium format gear & shooting 4x5 exclusively. I'm 69 years old & it's time to start simplifying things.

 

[stradibarrius]

Well I guess it can be very complicated but I have have made a few shots so far and even used some front movement and it is really FUN!!! I have watched a bunch of youtube videos and it all makes sense. The only real way to learn is under the dark cloth.
It's not so complicated....in fact LF may help me with my basic photographic approach. Now if I could just acquire some artistic vision!

 

[Ian Grant]

It's not so complicated....in fact LF may help me with my basic photographic approach. Now if I could just acquire some artistic vision!

Once you've used LF and mastered it it actually frees you up in your approach to other (smaller) formats.

The discipline means you quickly hone composure & exposure skills and the way you see/look for images, taht feeds back to 35mm/120 work and most people then shoot far fewer images but those they do are stronger more consistent etc.

Ian

 

[jp498]

If you can use an enlarger in the darkroom, you can use a LF camera in the field. Time, aperture, focus, etc.. Major difference being the light comes out of the enlarger, but light goes into the LF camera. I started 4x5 with a speed graphic. Toughest part of the whole thing was figuring out how to open the darn thing with the hidden release. Then I had to learn what the levers do on the lens shutter. Then I was ready.

 

[stradibarrius]

Ian, I think you are right...just the little bit I have played with the camera in the last few days makes me think that LF may possibly change the way I approach photography completely. Hopefully for the better???

 

[TareqPhoto]

Ian, I think you are right...just the little bit I have played with the camera in the last few days makes me think that LF may possibly change the way I approach photography completely. Hopefully for the better???

Have same feelings here as well.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Once you've used LF and mastered it it actually frees you up in your approach to other (smaller) formats.

The discipline means you quickly hone composure & exposure skills and the way you see/look for images, taht feeds back to 35mm/120 work and most people then shoot far fewer images but those they do are stronger more consistent etc.

Ian

I completely agree with that.

I think it also helps to focus work with other formats in useful ways, because it reveals what those formats are really good for. 35mm is great for low light and fast changing situations where a small handheld camera is ideal. I can and do put my fastest lens on my 4x5" Technika and shoot it handheld, but the limiting factor in low light becomes the film, and the grainy 35mm shot with an f:1.4 lens will usually be better than the underexposed 4x5" shot with an f:3.5 lens.

A medium format SLR is a natural choice for dynamic studio portraits. Of course one can develop a certain fluency with large format and use really powerful strobes to allow for a little more flexibility in DOF and subject motion with large format so the subject can move around a bit, but once you realize you're "aiming for a medium format aesthetic with a large format camera" the task becomes much clearer.

 

[Steve Sherman]

It's not so complicated....in fact LF may help me with my basic photographic approach. Now if I could just acquire some artistic vision!

Someone mentioned in the beginning of this thread that the hard part was looking at an upside down image. In time that may well become the best part of LF, it is for me. Stealing a phrase from Michael and Paula, "it's not what it is, it's what it looks like".

Viewing something upside down and reversed greatly helps define contrast and spacial relationships without the interference of reality.

Cheers!

 

[stradibarrius]

I am testing the limits of this camera and getting to know how everything works. I extended the bellows fully and the measured from the film plane to the lens board and it is 16". I am doing an extreme close up. the lens is a 180mm. I am trying to calculate the bellows factor. If I square the bellows length divided by the square the focal length of the lens and come up with an exposure compensation of 5 stops??? Does that sound right?