Is Kodak relaunching KODALITH ORTHO TYPE 3 ? Example of "creative" marketing !

[trendland]

Wow : A new bw film. Box speed ISO 12....hmm that looks like an interisting issue!
But what is it ?:

 

[trendland]

Sorry upload problems - come back later....

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Infrared film. That's what we need.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Crickets....

 

[trendland]

sorry for delay!
So here it is our "brand new bw film"!

 

[trendland]

It is an UK company who marketed it with the name "Bretz" !

Well - did the guys in Rochester secretly worked overtime?

PERHAPS - but these secretly unauthorized overtime was long time ago - friends!

A very long time ago I would state!

OK - so were is this stuff coming from - our UK fellows packed into these nice looking
135-36 canisters (not avaible in further formats) ?

IT IS INDEED COMING DIRECTLY FROM ROCHESTER (manufactured there)! But it isn't a new
production run at smalest scale out oft the year 2018....!


It is from a barn find of forgotten 15m rolls!

Why did the Englishman not create a series of film bunch with the Label :

FORGOTTEN FILMS ????

WHY SHOULD THEY DO THIS : BRETZ is much nicer and to build a homepage for the net is a quick job today :

.....this is sooo nice !

OK what about the 15m rolls (the origion) was it from 1998 ?

I have to state : THAT WOULD BE NICE .....see:

If you may have thoughts like me :

Is it a crime to repack films from an age of full 40years expiration date in new designed canisters and sell this stuff as a "New Film"?

My answer in advance is : Between clever marketing and a real crime is " sometimes " just
a smal difference!

Here it makes no difference - to me ALL photo examples you can find in the net about
this film are "fakes" - (just from my point)!


with regards

PS : characteristics of an orthocromatic special film after 40years bad storage!

 

[AgX]

Likely old news, as the film is no longer listed at the site of the converter, and listed as sold-out at the site of the only retailer.

Moreover,
where is the Eastman Kodak or Kodak Alaris input ??

By lack of the film showing up on the Bretz site, we cannot discuss such, unless you come up with a site cache.

 

[trendland]

Likely old news, as the film is no longer listed at the site of the converter, and listed as sold-out at the site of the only retailer.

Moreover,
where is the Eastman Kodak or Kodak Alaris input ??

By lack of the film showing up on the Bretz site, we cannot discuss such, unless you come up with a site cache.

Yes - I know - this film is sold-out !

SO THERE IS NO NEED TO GIVE A WARNING : Better save your money!

But who the hell bought this film ? Any experience with this film?
From my point the original Kodak film was a real good film comparable with the well
known Agfa film "Ortho 25" If I remember right the name was Agfa Ortho25 today still avaible from Rollei Orto25 ....I still own a big amound of 15m rolls of it!

But I have not such a good Homepage Buliding Kit!

with regards

PS : The impact to Kodak is : We will see no more bw films (relaunched) ....sad about!

 

[AgX]

-Rollei Ortho 25 was not from Agfa. And meanwhile they got a different film: Rollei Ortho 25 plus

 

[Agulliver]

I don't know about the actual Bretz website, it appears to be down...but I do remember the 12ASA Bretz film appearing at Analogue Wonderland and they were very clear that it was old film, repackaged. I have no issue with people being honest about what they're selling. This isn't any kind of scam. Further I don't see how it is bad for Kodak as it was only available for a short time. EK and KA had nothing to do with any of this and probably didn't even notice. It has no bearing on whether EK/KA bring back slow speed B&W film.

As long as the actual Bretz site didn't make out the product to be brand new, I don't see what the problem is?

 

[EdSawyer]

I wonder what the appeal is. I used kodalith a fair amount back in the day, for making things like line negatives and various stuff like that, mostly in 4x5. It was interesting and cheap/easy to use for various effects. But, it really was not suited to continuous tone usage, no matter what developer you used, really. And with Tech Pan so easily available (and so much better in every way vs. Kodalith), there was no real reason to bother trying to get continuous tone out of kodalith.

 

[trendland]

I wonder what the appeal is. I used kodalith a fair amount back in the day, for making things like line negatives and various stuff like that, mostly in 4x5. It was interesting and cheap/easy to use for various effects. But, it really was not suited to continuous tone usage, no matter what developer you used, really. And with Tech Pan so easily available (and so much better in every way vs. Kodalith), there was no real reason to bother trying to get continuous tone out of kodalith.

You are right - but pls. don't forget the worlds film portfolio during the good old days!
I remember a photo magazine wich came up every 2 years with an article : " All the worlds films" -
because there wasn't enough space in the magazine for one issue they splited it to the following issues in 3 parts : part one : color film, part two bw film, part 3 slide films!
Today one ask wich each remaining bw film in production : Can it be used for photography?

In the past special films were exklusive to special use - why ?
Because there were more than 100 bw films in all kind of formats to use for all kind of photographers plesure!

B.T.W. : Pan Tech (Technical Pan) was the better approach - no doubt about!

with regards

 

[trendland]

I don't know about the actual Bretz website, it appears to be down...but I do remember the 12ASA Bretz film appearing at Analogue Wonderland and they were very clear that it was old film, repackaged. I have no issue with people being honest about what they're selling. This isn't any kind of scam. Further I don't see how it is bad for Kodak as it was only available for a short time. EK and KA had nothing to do with any of this and probably didn't even notice. It has no bearing on whether EK/KA bring back slow speed B&W film.

As long as the actual Bretz site didn't make out the product to be brand new, I don't see what the problem is?

The problem is the name.....perhaps also the pricing!

But : to offer " old rols Kodalith " isn't a business modell! There are hundreds of Ebayers who
offer old stuff : "stored in the dark"....

The problem is that there is a demand (a real small demand for sure) - but this demand is not
enough for traditional manufacturers - but to the same moment it is enough to make money
from "winners of the crisis"!

And photography with film is in a crisis - remember Tetenal !

The oposite of such profiteer like the example from above - is : F E R R A N I A !!!!!!

So people - this manufacturer could indeed need your money!


with regards

 

[trendland]

Ähhm an other difference : (yes I really don't like such companies - but if someone have no problems with it is also ok from my point) - yeah an other difference would be :

If Rollei/Maco films would offer a special film bundle from Kodak Kodalith!

But I guess Rollei would not trust such business because the quality of that films can not guaranteed!

But Breeze is no company who may RISC any kind of reputation!

It is a company made from a webside construction kit named : Wix.com !

Or in other words : There is nothig more behind beside a web site!

with regards

PS : nothing - not even a web-side designer!

 

[EdSawyer]

I do miss the wealth of film options we had back in the day. It was crazy, so many choices, I tried a lot of them but certainly not all that were available. In retrospect, it would have been worth trying more of the various types while they were available. But, some still can be found online (old stock) and while not as good as fresh stock, can still be used to some degree.

 

[trendland]

I do miss the wealth of film options we had back in the day. It was crazy, so many choices, I tried a lot of them but certainly not all that were available. In retrospect, it would have been worth trying more of the various types while they were available. But, some still can be found online (old stock) and while not as good as fresh stock, can still be used to some degree.

Exacly my thoughts! Within the past you had to find your prefered films out of a mass of avaible films. And (not to forget) - every few months manufacturers presented improvements of films
or they anounced some new films!
To films wich find discontinuation some new films came for replacement (and new films get more and more superior characteristics.
Today some say : " There are "enought" films avaible for film-photgraphy" - well that might be right said ! But we have forgotten that the " thrill " with film-photography was during many decades the
decision to some preferences out oft a real mass!
I personaly used only a couple of best films in the past (I most hold in my prefered films) and so I felt the same as you : There was a chance to try out many alternate films - this chance is lost for ever......!
An other issue was the competition between manufacturers! It forced film manufacturers to come to better and better characteristics of films and at the same side your profit as a photograper was :
Normal pricing! Both is also lost forever - beside the fact that todays films ALL have best superior
characteristics - there is no way to manufacture films with lousy characteristics today!
With eceptions we noticed!
So the remaining film market is comparable with a monopol structure! If you need special thinks
you want to buy, then you have to spent EACH price or you can go away - many did it and went away
from film-photography!
A self-destruction mechanism of a complete industry.........
with regards

 

[rubbernglue]

As I just recently bought (another) darkroom, an unopened package along with all the wierd and old chemicals was 'Kodalith', and at first I thought like 'Nice! A lith paper developer' But perhaps not. Can anyone tell me what it is, and/or what it can be used for?

 

[trendland]

As I just recently bought (another) darkroom, an unopened package along with all the wierd and old chemicals was 'Kodalith', and at first I thought like 'Nice! A lith paper developer' But perhaps not. Can anyone tell me what it is, and/or what it can be used for?

Is it the developer you found in darkroom with the name : Kodak Kodalith developer or is it the film
Kodak Kodalith Ortho ?
Well the film is an orthocromatic film used for graphics! (most Letters)!
You geht real hart contrasts or lets better say :No Tonals!
The (contrasty original developer ) forced this characteristics - so I guess you can waste the developer you found (beside the age)! Such developer (if it is still good) would give you extreme hart
contrast from developing with normal films! In combination with ortho films (special with Kodalith film) your results are black and whites (no tonals between)!
But if it goes about the film you can usw it with developers who work from the principle of
" contrast defraction " this are special developers (highly expensive)!
If it just goes about to try the film , I would save the money for because your film is long time discontinued! I personaly would not waste the film instead - I would try out (from curiosity) because the alternate from development are "low contrast" developers there are many recipes avaible!
A normal low contrast developpment should be "not enough" to handle the heavy contrast of your
film (because it will give you not finest tonals) but it should give you pictures with flat tonals (just to have "something")!

with regards

PS : With excellent workflow you can manage such films also with special low contrast developing
methods! But this would imply you start own research with fresh film..!

 

[trendland]

BTW : this here is a "real good" paper "lith developer" I remember from a collegue who used it for graphics :

...and it is not soo expensive ~10 bucks!

with regards

 

[EdSawyer]

I just found a partial box of Kodalith 4x5 in my freezer this weekend. Not that I need to shoot it anytime soon but I bet it's still good. As I recall we used to develop by inspection in straight dektol probably, like 2-3 minutes or something.

 

[trendland]

I just found a partial box of Kodalith 4x5 in my freezer this weekend. Not that I need to shoot it anytime soon but I bet it's still good. As I recall we used to develop by inspection in straight dektol probably, like 2-3 minutes or something.

Ahh I see 4x5 film - yes that should not come into waste paper baskets!
Dektol allways worked fine with 1:5/1:10 delution!

with regards

 

[Whiteymorange]

I just found a partial box of Kodalith 4x5 in my freezer this weekend. Not that I need to shoot it anytime soon but I bet it's still good. As I recall we used to develop by inspection in straight dektol probably, like 2-3 minutes or something.

I have quite a bit of the Kodak Ortho Type 3 5226 in 35 mm. It came in a couple of different daylight loaders I purchased for next to nothing. Never had any problems with it, despite the age and, very probably, dismal storage history. Developed in HC110 1/150 for 12 min. It gives a pretty good range of tones, as does sheet ortho-litho bought from Photo Warehouse. The 4x5 is probably fine.

 

[KenS]

Wow : A new bw film. Box speed ISO 12....hmm that looks like an interisting issue!
But what is it ?:

It' High Contrast It's used for High contrast B/W "Line Work'.. like copying graphs and diagrams such as Charts..and 'screened photographs printed in books and newspapers, it requires a LIth developer usually at 1:3 dilution for 'pure black and white (screened to 'dots). I've exposed hundreds of sheets up to 16x20 I even have some 'oldish' 4x5 and 5x7
in my freezer.

Ken

 

[trendland]

Never had any problems with it, despite the age and, very probably, dismal storage history.

Well said - if you use it for lith I can imagine that ALL Kodalith you use are working fine.
Also the some with expiration some years ago!
Normal bw film with expiration < 10 years have a lost of some speed = no problem for normal use
(from compensation).
Normal bw films expired < 15 years "can" be used! A friend has enlargements (costom made) from his fathers cam with Hp5 ~ 15 - 20 years expired (the camera was loaded min. over one decade ago - but never in use).
The photographs looks "normal"!
But (from my point) bw films from bad storage with an age of more than 15years " can" louse more and more original characteristics beside speed!

For example : T O N A L S ......!

No problem for a lith film :" If it is used for lith " and not for such kind of photograhy :

!

with regards

 

[trendland]

Beside the fact that the "combination" of
1) expiration ~ 1980 (manufacturers date 09/78)
2) lith film
3) recomanded for normal photography
4) New Name (suggestion of New Film)
5) without recomandation of special development (remember Gigabit - Films - they bundled their document film with special developers)

BTW : What has happended when photographers ordered development to a lab?
What will a normal lab trainee (also lab experts today) do when you will give him this film?

He will have a look on it, he will notice : " Ahh an other new film - the 3. this week - yesterday
a client gave me a Rollei Retro 80s - I never saw before!"

Perhaps he will notice : " ISO 12 - wow that is strange "

But at last this films have been totaly destroyed in standard soups of lab machines !

IF THERE HAVE BEEN A REMAINING PART OF CHARACTERISTIC WICH WAS ABLE TO DESTROY!

with regards

PS : The max. stange issue I EVER noticed!
PPS : My first thoughts to this film was :
Aha it is Kodak Kodalith - but that isn't possible (Kodalith is long time out of production)

And of course Kodak will not revife Kodalith!

But from where is the film?

From a barn find!