Is it embarassing to shoot film?

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Steve Smith

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It's embarrassing to watch many digital shooters

The bit I don't get with digital shooters is the constant pattern of taking the shot then looking at the screen on the back. This halves the amount of time they are concentrating on whatever it they are photographing. One of the benefits of digital which we hear about all the time is the fact that you can take and store many more shots than film. In that case, just take as many as you want and sort through them later. Don't check out each one a second after you have taken it. I have seen people doing this at sporting events where the chances of something interesting happening whilst they are looking at the last shot they took are quite high.

Another thing which amuses me with younger people taking pictures of their friends, usually with their phones, is that they seem to have to show their friends what they looked like a few seconds ago.


Steve.
 

David Brown

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Another thing which amuses me with younger people taking pictures of their friends, usually with their phones, is that they seem to have to show their friends what they looked like a few seconds ago.

When I was "younger", we did this with Polaroids. :cool:
 
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Most folks will use what's most convenient. In a society where mediocrity is strongly prevalent, in terms of what's determined to be 'good enough', is anybody here surprised that people happily settle for iPhone quality photos? Like John says above, they are probably as good as the pictures the same people got with disposable 35mm cameras once (in their eyes), but pictures available by the click of a button.

I think the same people think it's stupid to go through the hassle (once again, in their eyes) of using film, driving to the film drop-off or mail box to get it processed, waiting for it to get done, and paying money for it every time. That's why they ask those questions, and it WILL be a comparison between digital and analog, by virtue of convenience.
Imagine this: If you wanted to drink a glass of water, and you could have a pretty much equal glass of water in three ways, what would you do?
1. You can pour a glass from your tap in your own home.
2. You can drive to any grocery store within your society and buy it.
3. You can send a mail-order business a credit card number or PayPal payment and have them send you the glass of water in the mail.
Which would you pick? In terms of convenience, option 1 seems pretty reasonable, doesn't it? Why should you go for option two or three? See, that's exactly the question camera phone users ask themselves when they see someone using a film camera. Don't even start about home processing, because that's like digging your own well and pumping your glass of water out, after you filter it and purify it, to make sure it's safe to drink.

The example is maybe not perfect, but to illustrate why people ask questions about film use, I think it's appropriate.

People seek out convenient ways of doing things, unless they have a passion for something, in which case they spend more time and effort in accomplishing their goals. So don't be surprised by questions when others see someone using means that no longer make sense to them from a practical standpoint.
 

Diapositivo

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The bit I don't get with digital shooters is the constant pattern of taking the shot then looking at the screen on the back.

They look at the right side of the histogram to see if they exposed correctly. Typically they will only look at the histogram, not necessarily to the picture.

If the histogram "bumps" on the highlights, they are going to have burnt highlights. Experienced digital shooters know how insidiously often that may happen :wink:

If there's too much "unexploited room" to the right of the image, they are going to have unnecessary noise levels in the shadows. Experienced digital shooters know how insidiously often that my happen :smile:

To get the maximum quality with digital you always have to apply the Goldilocks's rule. You don't have to expose too much, you don't have to expose too little. You have to expose "just right" to fill the graph. This is a "rule" called "expose to the right" or ETTR.

It's the equivalent of spot light metering to the highlights with slide film, preventing highlights burning, and let the shadows fall where they may. The only difference being that, in a low contrast situation, with digital it pays to overexpose "to the right" (if you are shooting raw, that is), and you cannot do that with slides because you will have overexposed slides (even if with no burnt highlights). On the other hand, digital clips highlights quite fast, hence the need of frequent "chimping".

I understand "chimping" to check correct exposure. I don't understand chimping every time, if light conditions did not change. And I certainly don't get doing this during a sport event!
 
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Steve Smith

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They look at the right side of the histogram to see if they exposed correctly. Typically they will only look at the histogram, not necessarily to the picture.

The people I was writing about were those who look at the picture rather than the histogram. Most of them wouldn't know what a histogram was anyway. Their cameras come from the factory with a default setting to show the picture after it has been taken so they think they have to look at it.


Steve.
 

SkipA

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What "defensive posture"?

People who respond from their own perspective about whether or not they are embarrassed to shoot film. They completely miss the point of the OPs questions. As moose pointed out, the OP was not talking about his own feelings or those of anyone on this forum who are all, by choice, film shooters, and therefore presumably not embarrassed to use film.
 

BrianShaw

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People who respond from their own perspective about whether or not they are embarrassed to shoot film. They completely miss the point of the OPs questions. As moose pointed out, the OP was not talking about his own feelings or those of anyone on this forum who are all, by choice, film shooters, and therefore presumably not embarrassed to use film.

This is a discussion forum... and people were discussing. Most people discuss things from their own personal perspective, especially when the questionis not perfectly clear. I took all of the discussion as normal and acceptable forum behavior. If not for that, all else in this thread would be speculation about someone else's potential emotional state based on a hearsay testimony of a discussion. Kinda difficult to address, wouldn't you agree? Maybe the OP should have made this a poll with only "yes" and "no" responses???? That would avoid the need for thread police keeping hte discussion going in the right direction. :smile:
 

SkipA

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I'm not complaining, BrianShaw. Just explaining. I personally find most of the content contributed in this thread to be of interest to me.
 

Sirius Glass

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I did not realize that a requirement to post on this thread is clairvoyance!
 

BrianShaw

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I'm not complaining, BrianShaw. Just explaining. I personally find most of the content contributed in this thread to be of interest to me.

I understand. I've found it interesting too.
 

lxdude

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I did not realize that a requirement to post on this thread is clairvoyance!
Haven't heard from her in a while. What's Clair up to these days?
 

Sirius Glass

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"Only her hairdresser knows for sure!"

:munch: :munch: :munch: :munch: :munch:
 

removed account4

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moose

i was well aware what the point of this thread was, but
steve's rant was why he uses digital, not why someone would feel
awkward or embarrassed when asked why they use dig, when they used to
be an avid film user. besides what average person would waste their
money on a 60 thousand dollars of camera and computer equipment to take snapshots ?

in the end it really doesn't matter does it?
both work, and for the average person both are "good enough" ...
and good enough means a point and shoot or celphone.

i'm still trying to understand how a Dcam is more expensive than a film
... when it costs 8¢ ( or less ) / print.
 
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Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Since I'm currently in Philadelphia for a big technology in education conference and I brought my Contax IIa, I thought I would mention my impression that there is a shared fear of irrelevance in today's world with respect to tech.

Typical argument would go like this: Would you get operated by a surgeon who was state-of-the-art in 1950, or by an average surgeon of today? The predictable answer is: an average joe from today since he has access to so much more drugs, technology, tools, science &c than the guy in the fifties. Now if you accept this, why do you accept to teach like it's still the 1950s? Ergo, you must embrace modern technology and integrate it in your teaching, otherwise you are forever hurting today's kids.

When you compare that to photography, you may not see the exact same argument, in the sense that no one will get "hurt" by shooting film, but you will find the same fear, in the sense that there is a strict, definite arrow of progress: before was lame, tomorrow is great. To think otherwise is blasphemous, end of discussion.

So it's no wonder that people are ashamed of shooting film. Even I felt kind of weird having all of these zealots around, as if I was a sleeper cell. The peer pressure is so great to "adapt or die" that it creates a sentiment of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. I probably shouldn't say as well that I shave with a straight razor and a badger brush?

If there is so much zealotry around computer technology, I think it's for the same reason there was so much zealotry around the steam engine at the turn of the 1800s: because it suddenly gives an advantage to certain people who did not have it before. Remember what society thought of geeks and nerds in the 80s? Compare it to now. Because people gain power, they can then further a world which is more and more dependent upon them. Excuse the naive historical analysis, but based on what I saw today, I could see people who have clearly succeeded to rise in prominence with the help of technology, and who are doing their best to ensure they stay there.

To go back to photography, the reason why there is shame is that you won't wield power over people with analog technology. What's worse, you'll look like one of the powerless: unable to be on the cutting edge.

But therein lies the fallacy: the real value of the cutting edge. All technologies embody values, not progress. Why do we have cars? Because we value speed. Is a car better than a horse? In terms of speed, yes, but not in terms of carbon footprint, manufacturing, and even cost. We live in a world where we believe that speed and convenience are the most important things, and that's why customers prefer digital, and that's perfectly logical.

Go back to health now, and compare two neighbouring countries, Canada and the USA. Which has the best medical technology, which is on the cutting edge of science, develops the most new drugs, has the most prestigious medical schools, the best doctors, and the rarest treatments that people all over the world vie for, and sometimes pay extravagant sums to undergo?

USA. (you may say it three times in a chorus, as is the custom...)

Yes, the USA has the best medicine, and is further on the arrow of progress. Canada, despite being one of the birthplaces of modern medicine (thank you Osler and McGill!), and no slouch either, would pale in comparison. We're behind with respect to research, quality of doctors (some of our best ones left for the USA anyway), etc.

But what was the point of medicine again? To die less. So who lives longest?

Canadians. About 10 years more. Because we have health insurance so we can afford to get treated earlier in the development of diseases.

It's not the technology, it's the purpose that should matter.
 
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