Is it a shame Fuji discontinued Superia200 ? What is the reason ?

[faberryman]

What Do you think is the reason Fuji is not willing to ask us before doing this?

Lack of demand.

 

[David Luttmann]

Business' exist to make a profit. Period.
If they can, they do.
When they cannot, they stop selling the product that doesn't make a profit.

it's not rocket science.

They have a right to do with they want with their product and don't owe anyone an explanation.

The only indication Fuji has ever given, has a bit less to do with profitablity. What was happening was that they would complete a master roll and package it up in rolls for sale. Merchants could not sell all the film prior to expiry. This results in erchants buying less...and Fuji unable to reduce their production lines to cope...because lower run lines are too much of an invetment at this point. Even if the charged an extra $2 a roll, it doesnt change the fact that the volume just isnt there any longer.

 

[David Luttmann]

Actually you can tell Fuji isnt doing anything to help film's survival. I'll give you a classic example. Years ago I shot Reala 100 as my primary film. It was easily available and very inexpensive. Somewhere around $3.50 if I remember right. Certainly no more than $4 a roll (120 size). I shot it for a good year after I settled on that film. Then I went to my film store one day and found out it was gone. Just gone. Discontinued by Fujifilm. The film store had another case, but it was the last case he'd get, unless he found some new old stock. The price per roll for that last case was $15/roll. I could not believe my eyes that a film that I had grown to love was gone with no warning at all.

Fuji did nothing to keep Reala 100 around. I paid that $15/roll. Sure I shot less, but I still shot film at that price.

Fujifilm could have raised the price of Reala 100 in an effort to get more profit from each master roll of film they made. But they didnt. They just gave up.

Fujifilm discontinued the Klasse S and Klasse W cameras. These retailed for around $450 in the stores. Today used ones sell for $800.

Fujifilm discontinued all of their color negative films except for 2. All except for 2. No price increase, no additional marketing, nothing. They just folded like the house of cards they are.

Raising the price has no effect. They cant sell the entire master roll before expiry. The only way they can is to reduce the price so much that it is no longer profitable in order to insure it flies off the shelves. Price is not the issue here...lack of sufficient demand is.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Do not believe the conspiracy theories! The film companies are looking to driving the OP crazy. BA-WAA-HA-HAAA!

Sirius Glass you can't better illustrate my
position ...
Yes indeed - Fuji is driving me crazy
since they discontinued Sensia 100.
This was the point I wondered about.
Before they discontinued Sensia 200,
Sensia 400 - no problem to me.
But Sensia Films were best selling Fuji E6
ever. Because the demand of proffessionals to Velvia for example was
NOTHING in comparison of the demand
of amateuric and semi proffessional photographers to the Sensia Family during simple holyday shootings.
And I personaly own 2 x 30 packs of Sensia 100 ( 2x 10 x 3pack )
AND now I have to spend several hundred bucks to buy 100 Fuji Superia200? .
Within the next 2 weeks?
Or I decide to buy first 50 Superia200 AND will pay $ 80,- more 3 weeks later...
It is the "price explosion" wich Fuji is responcible for - to the same time I hear
some speeking : less demand.?????

with regards

PS : 100 Superia200 is not a big amound
in regard of several years.
200 or 400 of this emulsions is better.
But the costs to this are horrable,
just -,50 cent more a film means 50 bucks more to the whole 100 pack.....

First Kodak got me hooked on UltraColor, I ran around buying all that I could find and then they discontinued it.

 

[BMbikerider]

I am sure it is because the cost per unit has escalated and the company accountants are telling them they are not making enough profit for their shareholders on what they sell so they discontinue it so reducing the overheads. Accountants are the destroyers of many a good firm, but they will never admit it!

 

[NJH]

Its probably most likely that its seen as a consumer grade film and sadly that part of the market has more or less disappeared, thus there would seem little point in continuing production of consumer grade film as inevitably there comes a point where it becomes unsustainable as a business (a point they may have long since past for all we know). Still though that doesn't explain why Fuji's pro film coverage at 160 and 400 iso is either so patchy or unrealistically expensive (here in the UK at least). Sadly I find it hard to not be cynical and believe that Fuji is a company looking to get out of the photographic film business (instax aside).

 

[removedacct1]

RattyMouse, I, for one, now know exactly what your position is on Fuji, thanks. I will not be wasting your time asking for any further elaboration.

pentaxuser

+1

 

[Cholentpot]

First Kodak got me hooked on UltraColor, I ran around buying all that I could find and then they discontinued it.

I started on a handful of Plus-X I got for free from a shop because it was out of date. When I went back for more I found out that it was not around anymore. Silly me.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

An argument can be made for Fuji not being as enthusiastic as it claims to be. Consider their pack film, FP-3000B and FP-100C, where in recent times they sold most of it to third world countries for passport photos and similar documentation. When those areas switched to digital, Fuji's market dwindled to just the enthusiasts. Fuji decided it was unmaintainable, so they stopped production and scrapped their manufacturing capability for that film.

What they didn't realize was that the amateur market would support a much higher price for the film and also some people were interested enough to want to buy the machinery to make the film (only to find out later it no longer existed).

Had Fuji not taken the immediate action of killing the production process and instead announced an intention to discontinue the film, things may very well be different today.

 

[trendland]

Raising the price has no effect. They cant sell the entire master roll before expiry. The only way they can is to reduce the price so much that it is no longer profitable in order to insure it flies off the shelves. Price is not the issue here...lack of sufficient demand is.

"Lack of sufficient demand" well - this is a good term...
And of cause a real fact. - 98% I just guess (from the top in 2000)
Yes we should all know this and of cause I take account of this fact from the beginning. Some additional issues : The worldwide demand on still film (without cinefilme) should have been somewere in the near of the equivalent of 3,5 - 4 billion 135 films/year.
Perhaps the demand to film today could REACH 2,5 - 3% of this
again. More we will never see.
But notice : Kodak sells for example Thungsten E6 films till 2003 ?
First discontinued EPJ ( Ektachrome 320T ) and EPY 220 (Ektachrome 64T)
nowbody wonders about.
But they were able to produce this very low demand films over years and years.
I would not wonder if EPY has less of 1%
of all Kodak E6 films.
EPJ should have been less of 0,2% of all Kodak E6.....
AND you have to know E6 films have got
a demand of just 8 -9 % of all films (included c41 and bw) over some decades.
So a consumer c41 film today can't have
a lack of sufficient demand wich is big enough to make the film "unprofitable".
Also with a remaining demand of - 98% from the top.
But I may be wrong due to wrong datas.
(The correct datas were never published - so I have to extrapolate some well known datas)

with regards

 

[trendland]

The only indication Fuji has ever given, has a bit less to do with profitablity. What was happening was that they would complete a master roll and package it up in rolls for sale. Merchants could not sell all the film prior to expiry. This results in erchants buying less...and Fuji unable to reduce their production lines to cope...because lower run lines are too much of an invetment at this point. Even if the charged an extra $2 a roll, it doesnt change the fact that the volume just isnt there any longer.

Exact David - thanks for this.
This was the situation in end of 2003 - 2005 with massive cheap offers on film due to "overproduction".

with regards

 

[carlostaiwan]

I think the explanation is quite easy, two products "35mm film" , to the same target "non professional film user", at a similar price range in the same market. It is called Cannibalization "In marketing strategy, cannibalization refers to a reduction in sales volume, sales revenue, or market share of one product as a result of the introduction of a new product by the same producer."
After introducing C200, the Superia 200 sales were reduced for a very similar product. Maintaining two lines of production, distribution and marketing is not cheap. I think Fujifilm decided to go for the product that will bring them more revenue. The Fujicolor C200. For what I know, C200 is cheaper to produce than the Superia line (something about a 4th layer).
Most target customers will not even realize that Superia 200 has been discontinued because it is a perfect substitute "A Perfect Substitute is a good that functions just the same as the good it is being compared to. An example would be Coke or Pepsi, BP petroleum or Exxon petroleum etc... "

Sorry for the marketing class! but without looking at Fujifilm sales, it is easy to deduct.

In a more personal point of view, I didn't like the Superia 200 at all, the skin colors were way too saturated, in my experience, the C200 even being a "cheaper" option, always gave me great results, much better than Superia. So, I can see why the Superia was discontinued and the C200 stills in the market.

 

[trendland]

I think the explanation is quite easy, two products "35mm film" , to the same target "non professional film user", at a similar price range in the same market. It is called Cannibalization "In marketing strategy, cannibalization refers to a reduction in sales volume, sales revenue, or market share of one product as a result of the introduction of a new product by the same producer."
After introducing C200, the Superia 200 sales were reduced for a very similar product. Maintaining two lines of production, distribution and marketing is not cheap. I think Fujifilm decided to go for the product that will bring them more revenue. The Fujicolor C200. For what I know, C200 is cheaper to produce than the Superia line (something about a 4th layer).
Most target customers will not even realize that Superia 200 has been discontinued because it is a perfect substitute "A Perfect Substitute is a good that functions just the same as the good it is being compared to. An example would be Coke or Pepsi, BP petroleum or Exxon petroleum etc... "

Sorry for the marketing class! but without looking at Fujifilm sales, it is easy to deduct.

In a more personal point of view, I didn't like the Superia 200 at all, the skin colors were way too saturated, in my experience, the C200 even being a "cheaper" option, always gave me great results, much better than Superia. So, I can see why the Superia was discontinued and the C200 stills in the market.

Yes that may be a good point - I also thought about cannibalization effects.
But this you will more see as posible reason of dicontionued Fuji E6 with same Box Speed ISO 100.
And I also prophesize the following :
Just wait a couple of month - and Fuji will
discontinue C200 !
And so it has possible not so much to do with cannibalizations.

But perhaps we just find the right name on Fujis behavior in film market today.

FUJI IS A FILM CANNIBAL !!!!!!

with regards

 

[trendland]

I think the explanation is quite easy, two products "35mm film" , to the same target "non professional film user", at a similar price range in the same market. It is called Cannibalization "In marketing strategy, cannibalization refers to a reduction in sales volume, sales revenue, or market share of one product as a result of the introduction of a new product by the same producer."
After introducing C200, the Superia 200 sales were reduced for a very similar product. Maintaining two lines of production, distribution and marketing is not cheap. I think Fujifilm decided to go for the product that will bring them more revenue. The Fujicolor C200. For what I know, C200 is cheaper to produce than the Superia line (something about a 4th layer).
Most target customers will not even realize that Superia 200 has been discontinued because it is a perfect substitute "A Perfect Substitute is a good that functions just the same as the good it is being compared to. An example would be Coke or Pepsi, BP petroleum or Exxon petroleum etc... "

Sorry for the marketing class! but without looking at Fujifilm sales, it is easy to deduct.

In a more personal point of view, I didn't like the Superia 200 at all, the skin colors were way too saturated, in my experience, the C200 even being a "cheaper" option, always gave me great results, much better than Superia. So, I can see why the Superia was discontinued and the C200 stills in the market.

Superia Vs C200 you may be right.
But to me resolution is a more practical fact. C200 has obvoiusly not the same characteristics in regard of this.
It is not comming from the same basis.
(Superia has the 4th layer technology)
.......yes I realy know 4th layer ?
.....but Superia200 is more in direction
of Kodak Gold.
C200 is more comparable with KodakVR.
If I may say so.

with regards

 

[carlostaiwan]

They have different film characteristics, but they occupy the same market segment. I think the decission to discontinue Superia has nothing to do with the quality of the film itself. There is just nlt enough market for it. Professionals and amateurs use digital. In film, pros use 400H or slide, leaving just one option for amateur film users in 200. It makes sense if you talk business, as a film user enthusiast, it is a pity to see a film get discontinued

 

[Minoltafan2904]

Lack of demand!
I really haven't seen too much people using Superia these days, they have other films that are much more successful, they still sell quite a lot of Velvia and Provia.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You should have listened to me all these years when I have said that if you want to keep a film in production, then shoot more film.

 

[Minoltafan2904]

Kodak is the king of C-41 right now.
Why use Superia 200 when you can use Ektar 100 or Portra 160, they have nicer colours and are easier to get.
Why use Superia 400 when you have the universally loved Portra 400?
Why use Superia 800 when there's Portra 800 which is easier to get?
It's simply a case of Kodak having nicer C-41 films than fuji, and Kodak's films being more easily available, oh and Superia isn't available in 5 roll pro packs huh?

 

[Sirius Glass]

As film sales nose dived after the advent of the digital revolution Fuji pulled back from color prints and concentrated on the slide market. At the same time Kodak withdrew from the slide market and concentrated on the color print market. Thus the disappearance of particular films discussed in this thread.

 

[RattyMouse]

Kodak is the king of C-41 right now.
Why use Superia 200 when you can use Ektar 100 or Portra 160, they have nicer colours and are easier to get.
Why use Superia 400 when you have the universally loved Portra 400?
Why use Superia 800 when there's Portra 800 which is easier to get?
It's simply a case of Kodak having nicer C-41 films than fuji, and Kodak's films being more easily available, oh and Superia isn't available in 5 roll pro packs huh?

First off, not everyone thinks Kodak film looks better than Fuji. I would shoot Fuji 400H 10 times out of 10 over Kodak Portra.

I shoot Fujicolor exclusively in 35mm cassettes.

Second, Kodak film is much harder to find in many parts of the world compared to Fuji.

 

[removed account4]

Kodak is the king of C-41 right now.
Why use Superia 200 when you can use Ektar 100 or Portra 160, they have nicer colours and are easier to get.
Why use Superia 400 when you have the universally loved Portra 400?
Why use Superia 800 when there's Portra 800 which is easier to get?
It's simply a case of Kodak having nicer C-41 films than fuji, and Kodak's films being more easily available, oh and Superia isn't available in 5 roll pro packs huh?

hi minoltafan2904

hi hate to be a contrarian, but i can't stand kodak color film, i don't like the color palette. i never liked ektachrome or kodachrome either.

thankfully i don't shoot color film much anymore ..

 

[Arctic amateur]

Raising the price has no effect. They cant sell the entire master roll before expiry. The only way they can is to reduce the price so much that it is no longer profitable in order to insure it flies off the shelves. Price is not the issue here...lack of sufficient demand is.

Not entirely true. If they can raise prices enough that they turn a profit on each master roll even with reduced sales volume due to those increased prices, they could keep making the film, even if some of the master roll is wasted due to age.

But it's not just about getting into the black. Every corporation wants to maximise its profits. If the return on investment on product X is less than on product Y, it can make sense to move resources from X to Y even though both X and Y are profitable.

 

[foc]

Two years ago I spoke with Fuji Ireland and I was told then that they expected Fuji, in the near future, would have only one colour print film in 35mm and that would be a 400 speed. So it looks like they were correct, the sole survivor will be Superia Xtra 400.

Film is now a very small niche market. Just think about the selection of colour films available at the moment. There are only two colour manufacturers left, Kodak and Fuji. All other film under different names are just relabeled.

Personally I don't think the market is big enough to profitably sustain the present selection of colour print films. Then there is the chicken & egg situation regarding commercial C41 processing although this is becoming a very niche market for those that provide a good service. I own a minilab and my C41 processing has increased in the last 6 months (of course partly to do with other labs closing).

It has been said here before, shoot fresh and often, and be happy with what we have.

 

[trendland]

Well friends - if Fuji is just willing, they are able to tell us : "Sorry we anounce the Superia200 as discontinued
because we are sold out. The remaining
inventures from masterrols are still enough for sales to the next 6 month.
We are planning to bring out a NEW
SUPERIA200 as improved emulsion after this. We also started investigations to the relaunch of other dicontionued Fuji color films because of increasing demand to films within the last 2 years.
We will inform you imediately about foreseeable pricing when we finished our decision for concrete further films we will
relaunch."
NOTICE : Fuji is more able to do so. I suspect they are just not willing.
If I am right you will see this from KODAK
with Ekatachrome100!
(I have some doubts if Ferrania will follow - sorry to all of you for having this doubts - but I would wish it to Ferrania nevertheless for sure) [the success]

And friends possible I am totaly wrong - then we will hear this from KODAK within the next view month - " The Recall of plans to bring out new Ektachrome - because of the lost of economical basis "

But I don't think so .

As a conclusion of this all : If Kodak is able to do so (relaunch E6) , Ferrania is working on this within a permanent economical (financially) crisis - Fuji should be able + 1000% to follow with
film produktion.
But they did obviously not so in the past.
They backed obviously E6 emulsions at last several years ago and icreased pricing every 3 month as a special compensation to recoverable inventories because the are not willing.
I realy did not expect this from japanese in general - because japanese are in contact with their own history much more than others.
Also from this : SHAME ON FUJI...

with regards

 

[trendland]

Not entirely true. If they can raise prices enough that they turn a profit on each master roll even with reduced sales volume due to those increased prices, they could keep making the film, even if some of the master roll is wasted due to age.

But it's not just about getting into the black. Every corporation wants to maximise its profits. If the return on investment on product X is less than on product Y, it can make sense to move resources from X to Y even though both X and Y are profitable.

Yes - that is the " CENTRAL KEY " I would ask also : How much has pricing on film to increase to make production with color film again economical with smaler produktion runs.
I will also state : Kodak should answer this central question with pricing of new
E6 and statement to required production volume.

with regards