• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Is Fomadon R09 the Same as Rodinal?

R09 is an older formula and is different than Adonal. The Vaihingen plant is closed as far as I know, this info is dated 2009 but things changed in... Or around 2012 with Adox officially buying the latest formula, they are all now made by Tetenal I believe but to different specs to reflect the different formulas then for example Adox recieves large vats of the developer and re-bottles them in smaller containers.

Ugh I wish I could find the darn thread...

Sorry for offending, you are just difficult, and I can't provide the source but I PROMISE I'm essentially correct that Adonal is the latest Rodinal formula before the original company shut down.
 
  • Deleted member 2924
  • Deleted

Oh I see, thanks for clarifying.

I would think that the newer version was simply labeled for a more litigious society and not it's failure with lesser keeping properties, that said, that part is opinion. Either way it lasts a LONG time still, in fact, does anyone know, is it safe to leave a bottle open on purpose? I will pour 100ml of Adonal into a bottle and leave it open in my basement for 2 months with no lid, that's a long time of oxygen exposure...

Assuming the fumes aren't dangerous since it's near the air recirculator? Anyone know?
 
  • Deleted member 2924
  • Deleted

Just trying to find a way to oxidize it quickly...

Why did they change it? What was the benefit?
 
Alessandro Serrao said:
Epic fail dear italiano cafone trapiantato a NY.
Click to expand...
LOL. I'm part Italian, and only speak English, but only had to Google "cafone."
My family would typically use "DP" for the English version of "trapiantato" (not as a literal translation). "Cafone" was implied in context.
 
StoneNYC said:
Just trying to find a way to oxidize it quickly...

Why did they change it? What was the benefit?
Click to expand...

To make sure people need to buy it more frequently?
 
In films haydays everyone made clones, they all lasted the same.

Azol came in a dark glass bottle inner rubber stopper screw cap on top - way overkill.

Any of the p-aminophenol/KOH concentrates are going to last longer than other dev types. You should have majored in organic chemistry. I chuck ice in POTA.

In ten years silver will be more expensive and the climate as erratic...
 
StoneNYC said:
Every 10 years instead of every 20? Hah!
Click to expand...
In my experience 6 months or less. But there is a benefit from it for me, I bought a pair of brand new Sekonics. Just to make sure it is a developer, what is failing, not my light metering.
 
As many have stated, the Rodinal family of developers seem to have incredibly long life.

I am currently working my way through a 1 litre bottle of Orwo R09 (the stuff that's diluted 1+40) made around 1986 which is inky black but works perfectly - I simply use the published/MDC times for 1+50 Rodinal.

I also have a 250ml bottle of Orwo R09 which is a odd, very dark red colour, made around 1972/73. A drop of this turns an exposed leader black instantly. Haven't got round to trying processing a film yet...
 

Well, look at the MSDS.
http://www.adox.de/ADOX_ADONAL(E).pdf
Even if its only 100ml I would prefer not to enter a room full of the fumes so unless your ventilation system is adequate and turned on nonstop during the experiment Id call it a bad idea. Air recirculator? We are talking a fan pulling the air out from the darkroom, right?
Best regards
 

Now combine that statement with the fact that the plant in Vaihingen / Enz no longer produces this.
 
I myself use Compard R09 zone Shot. I have no idea how close it is to the actual Rodinal formulae, but it has worked well for me thus far. At the time I bought it from Freestyle, they'd had Adonal on backorder for a long time and so I finally told them to ship me the Compard instead. I've not used Agfa Rodinal or Adox Adonal previously, so I cannot compare the Compard to anything else, but I've been mighty pleased and it's developing and storage characteristics have been identical to what I've read about Rodinal.

And I'm not Italian, so:
"Ooooh, la due cupole grande de la Cathedrale di Milano!" --'A Fish Called Wanda'
 
ath said:
Now combine that statement with the fact that the plant in Vaihingen / Enz no longer produces this.
Click to expand...

The question is where the confectionig took place at the time Rodinal was still beeing produced in Veihinngen by A&O and later by CCCP&S?
 
timor said:
In my experience 6 months or less. But there is a benefit from it for me, I bought a pair of brand new Sekonics. Just to make sure it is a developer, what is failing, not my light metering.
Click to expand...

6 months? Ridiculous, you sure this was Adpx Adonal? And you haven't done something else wrong like diluted it?

That seems very counter to my experience... Especially with the cracked cap incident....
 

Yea, bad idea, it would be in my basement not darkroom... Either way, a bad idea...
 
StoneNYC said:
6 months? Ridiculous, you sure this was Adpx Adonal? And you haven't done something else wrong like diluted it?

That seems very counter to my experience... Especially with the cracked cap incident....
Click to expand...

I agree Stone and from all I've read 6 mos. would be extremely conservative even for a conservative. I would think from what I have heard about Adonal and my last bottle of Rodinal (post 2004) that we're talking years and not months. Could be wrong, but I don't think so. JohnW
 

I have said this several times before but will say it again. An MSDS must be read carefully and with some knowledge of chemistry. The document does NOT tell the reader what is IN the product but rather what is MIXED to PRODUCE the product. There is a very big difference between the two. There will usually some reactions between the ingredients. There are not going to be any fumes from the ordinary use of this product as a developer.
 

Well that's wrong too, if the developer has an odor, then it produces fumes...
 
StoneNYC said:
Well that's wrong too, if the developer has an odor, then it produces fumes...
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking that is true but I think most people would understand what I meant. It is a matter of degree. A rotten egg smells of hydrogen sulfide but would not be considered a practical source of it. No one is going to die from being in a room with a rotten egg.
 
  • Deleted member 2924
  • Deleted

A safety data sheet is to inform about a substance or mixture.

A mixture is something different than just the sum of the ingredients mixed you refer to.
 
Alessandro Serrao said:
So what?
Compard is making the packaging so Compard is flushing the bottle with inert gas while Adox doesn't.
Click to expand...

Tell me what does inert gas flushing of the bottle at the plant have to do with my bottles keeping property after I crack the seal. I only care about how long it will last after my bottle of Adonal has been opened. 6 mos. seems a little on the short side to me since I still have my old bottle of Rodinal (post 2004) and it's working just fine. I would think the two, post 2004 Rodinal and Adonal, should be the same. JohnW
 

Exactly....

What he's inferring is that the tiny bit of O2 at the top will set of the bottles failure cascade... (Probably the wrong terms, but once oxygen is introduced to the developer, it begins to degrade, you see this through the discoloration...)

I've looked at both bottles, the R09 and Adonal... They both have the same pinkish shoe, if they were pure, with no oxygen introduced, then they would both be sure clear liquid, the cute means that some oxygen has been introduced at some point from the time it was taken from the large vats, and placed into the small bottles. Once that's happened, as far as I know, it doesn't really matter anymore you started the cascade effect, and the developer is degrading... Obviously if you introduce more oxygen, this will speed up the rate of decay (or whatever it's called that causes the developer to become ineffective). My dad is a chemist, but I am not, so forgive me if I'm speaking slightly incorrectly, but that's basically what happens. So apparently whatever gas is being put into the R09 bottles, it's obviously not really working properly to prevent any kind of contamination... Also, the plastic itself is porous, no matter how preventative of a plastic it is, it is still porous, and oxygen is still being introduced to the plastic, so that little bit of gas does nothing to protect the bottle itself...

I've decided, for the heck of it, to take one of the bottles of Adonal that I have, with an unbroken seal, and I'm going to keep it, I'm going to keep it for years and years and years, and every time I get a new bottle, I'm going to compare it to this specially labeled bottle, and I bet for sure that they color of the developer will change very little... And in 10 years time, I'll break the seal, and then I'll use the developer, just to prove you wrong mister Italiano
 
AgX said:
A safety data sheet is to inform about a substance or mixture.

A mixture is something different than just the sum of the ingredients mixed you refer to.
Click to expand...

Very true which is why I said there may be some reactions which take place on mixing. I'm sure that you must have missed this when reading. This was the point of my post. People tend to think that because the MSDS for Rodinal lists potassium hydroxide that the product contains a lot of this alkali. In actuality it combines with the p-aminophenol to form a phenolate and the bisulfite to form sulfite both of which are NOT listed in the MSDS. This is why I said that an MSDS needs to be read carefully and that a certain knowledge of chemistry is needed to get the full benefit of the document.
 

The problem is that photographic solutions are no longer shipped using the best containers. Often a polyethylene bottle is used seriously compromising the shelf life of the product. When Agfa stopped bottling Rodinal in glass they used a composite plastic bottle that was better than an ordinary one. Now everything is dependent on the "bottom line" and short cuts are taken.
 
  • Deleted member 2924
  • Deleted
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register