Is film dead?

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blockend

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I wonder how film only fundamentalists put their images on the internet, or photograph an object for ebay? Unless you keep your photos in a box and exhibit on the walls of a gallery (nothing wrong with either) there's no way of sharing an image without digitising it.

Most film enthusiasts settle for digital for work and film for pleasure approach.
 

FujiLove

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I wonder how film only fundamentalists put their images on the internet, or photograph an object for ebay? Unless you keep your photos in a box and exhibit on the walls of a gallery (nothing wrong with either) there's no way of sharing an image without digitising it.

Most film enthusiasts settle for digital for work and film for pleasure approach.

I have a flatbed scanner and a camera on my phone. You could argue that I therefore own a digital camera, but I didn't buy a digital camera, I bought a phone. It just happens to have a terrible camera inside. I use that for eBay or borrow the wife's D70.

I'd ask a more fundamental question: What's the obsession with sharing photos online? 99.99% of all the photographs I see shared online these days should not have been posted (excepting images posted for technical reasons - development tests etc.) They are fit for nothing but the enjoyment of the person who took them and their immediate family. They would have been much better appreciated by handing someone a physical print when they meet in person, by posting them a couple of the best ones or showing them projected images over a few drinks. Over-sharing is a modern disease.
 

blockend

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I have a flatbed scanner and a camera on my phone. You could argue that I therefore own a digital camera, but I didn't buy a digital camera, I bought a phone. It just happens to have a terrible camera inside. I use that for eBay or borrow the wife's D70.

A flatbed scanner is a digitising device. I own one and its sole purpose is to turn film images into digital ones. A phone with a camera used as a camera is a camera. Some of the newest phones out-resolve many digital cameras. Image quality does not make a camera less of a camera, in digital or film.


I'd ask a more fundamental question: What's the obsession with sharing photos online? 99.99% of all the photographs I see shared online these days should not have been posted (excepting images posted for technical reasons - development tests etc.) They are fit for nothing but the enjoyment of the person who took them and their immediate family. They would have been much better appreciated by handing someone a physical print when they meet in person, by posting them a couple of the best ones or showing them projected images over a few drinks. Over-sharing is a modern disease.

Almost all photographs ever taken are aesthetically poor, digital photography has simply increased their number. I lost count of the mind numbing slide shows I've had to sit through, or albums of meaningless personal pictures passed round for appraisal. To the person who took them they evoke memories, but those emotions are non-transferable. That isn't a digital problem, it's a photograph problem.
 

FujiLove

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What I was trying to say is that there are loads of ways of sharing an image without ever digitising it, and for most circumstances, I find them superior to posting online. After all, what do you think people were doing twenty years ago?!
 

blockend

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What I was trying to say is that there are loads of ways of sharing an image without ever digitising it, and for most circumstances, I find them superior to posting online. After all, what do you think people were doing twenty years ago?!
As someone who was taking film photographs forty years ago and still does, I'm aware of the visceral pleasure of the silver/platinum/gum print. My point is that those who decry digital photography as the work of the devil are rarely consistent in their dismissal of it. They mostly have a workaround that fits their film conscience, allowing them to share an image beyond an immediate circle of family and friends. Photographers who exclusively shoot and print on film and paper and don't digitise their images at any stage, are a rarity.

Most people intervene digitally at some stage nowadays, if it's only to scan a silver print for uploading. If we let the digital world in, I don't think we can climb high horses over its inadequacy as a medium. The majority use what works for them.
 

FujiLove

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I wonder why people who only use film cameras are often called, 'fundamentalists', 'obsessives' etc. while nobody ever seems to use these terms for people who only use digital processes?

Regarding film photographers not actually being film photographers because they sometimes scan an image to post online. Isn't that like saying a digital photographer isn't a digital photographer because they sometimes print on paper?

Scanning an occasional photo on a flatbed to share online technically makes you a 'hybrid' photographer, but only technically, like printing a digital image with physical inks on physical paper.
 

R.Gould

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As someone who was taking film photographs forty years ago and still does, I'm aware of the visceral pleasure of the silver/platinum/gum print. My point is that those who decry digital photography as the work of the devil are rarely consistent in their dismissal of it. They mostly have a workaround that fits their film conscience, allowing them to share an image beyond an immediate circle of family and friends. Photographers who exclusively shoot and print on film and paper and don't digitise their images at any stage, are a rarity.

Most people intervene digitally at some stage nowadays, if it's only to scan a silver print for uploading. If we let the digital world in, I don't think we can climb high horses over its inadequacy as a medium. The majority use what works for them.
I only use film for my picture taking, and darkroom for my print making, that's they way I like it, but surely it should be horses for courses, I have nothing against Digital photographers, if that is there pleasure then so be it, What I find is that digital photographers look down upon film photographers, at least where I live, for instance, a few years ago I considered joining our local photographic club, went to a meeting or two and was impressed with the standard of work, but when it became plain that I personally was only going to use film and darkroom I was told by members of the commitee that it was worth my while joining as I would let the side down, after all, I was only a film photographer, and that is my only objection to Digital, surely the arguments over which is best should be set aside and we should all be able to do our own thing, side by side, neither is better, just different,there is room for both, I scan my prints, for my site and for Apug and other sites, I like to get my photography out there, same as Digital photographers, Not all look down, and many are interested in what I do,
but digital and analogue should live together, after all. we are all photgraphers
 

blockend

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I only use film for my picture taking, and darkroom for my print making, that's they way I like it, but surely it should be horses for courses, I have nothing against Digital photographers, if that is there pleasure then so be it, What I find is that digital photographers look down upon film photographers, at least where I live, for instance, a few years ago I considered joining our local photographic club, went to a meeting or two and was impressed with the standard of work, but when it became plain that I personally was only going to use film and darkroom I was told by members of the commitee that it was worth my while joining as I would let the side down, after all, I was only a film photographer, and that is my only objection to Digital, surely the arguments over which is best should be set aside and we should all be able to do our own thing, side by side, neither is better, just different,there is room for both, I scan my prints, for my site and for Apug and other sites, I like to get my photography out there, same as Digital photographers, Not all look down, and many are interested in what I do,
but digital and analogue should live together, after all. we are all photgraphers
I've never belonged to a camera club, so can't comment on the politics involved. Last year I did come across a local photographic club exhibition at a country show, and a number of things stuck me. First, film was a minority pursuit but about one in seven of the contributors used film, scanned or optically printed. Secondly, neither the camera or medium had anything to do with the quality of the images. Most were fairly bland portraits, sunsets, cars, etc, with about a quarter of the shots being better than average. The best photographer by some distance used an "old" 6mp DSLR, according to the labels. Thirdly, judging by the people manning the stands, they didn't seem especially competitive technologically, and were carrying all kinds of gear from full frame DSLRs to low megapixel bridge cameras.

Obviously that's just one opinion on one show, but they seemed fairly easy going. I'd give any camera snobbery club a wide berth, whether it be 40 mp sensor fetishists or large format film snobs.
 

R.Gould

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I've never belonged to a camera club, so can't comment on the politics involved. Last year I did come across a local photographic club exhibition at a country show, and a number of things stuck me. First, film was a minority pursuit but about one in seven of the contributors used film, scanned or optically printed. Secondly, neither the camera or medium had anything to do with the quality of the images. Most were fairly bland portraits, sunsets, cars, etc, with about a quarter of the shots being better than average. The best photographer by some distance used an "old" 6mp DSLR, according to the labels. Thirdly, judging by the people manning the stands, they didn't seem especially competitive technologically, and were carrying all kinds of gear from full frame DSLRs to low megapixel bridge cameras.

Obviously that's just one opinion on one show, but they seemed fairly easy going. I'd give any camera snobbery club a wide berth, whether it be 40 mp sensor fetishists or large format film snobs.
I never joined the local photographic club, for obvious reasons, At a recent local Eistodfod arts and crafts exhibition with a large photographic group, analogue was split around 50/50 with the digital, there was some great work by the digital entries, could not fault it, won some trophys, but the best newcomer was a 15 year old with a film/darkroom print, some great analogue darkroom work, but in both camps had some rubbish that, in my opioun should never have been selected.
What I am trying to say is that be it digital or analogue there is good and bad, but why all the what is best or film is dead arguments here and elsewhere, Film in the right hands is great, digital in the bright hands is great, both can produce the results, but in the wrong hands each can be rubbish, Live and let live , digital or analogue its all photography. We perhaps would be better employed in celebrating what each does than fight over what is best
 

blockend

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What I am trying to say is that be it digital or analogue there is good and bad, but why all the what is best or film is dead arguments here and elsewhere, Film in the right hands is great, digital in the bright hands is great, both can produce the results, but in the wrong hands each can be rubbish, Live and let live , digital or analogue its all photography. We perhaps would be better employed in celebrating what each does than fight over what is best
I agree. I prefer film because it has a specific look I can't get any other way, I like the feel of film cameras, and there's a nostalgia element from decades of familiarity with the medium. None of that prejudices me from appreciating a great shot, whatever camera it was taken on. The idea that a photograph is superior for no better reason that it was shot on film, makes no more sense than saying a photo is better because it's bigger, or is printed in colour rather than black and white.
 

Wallendo

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Obviously something is not "dead" while it is still alive. Film, to me, seems to have entered a quiescent stage. It is unlikely we will see new films from Fuji or Kodak. Ilford's line-up seems stable. Occasionally, smaller players may release niche film. But, as long as people are willing to pay enough for film to keep manufacturing profitable, we will have a steady supply.

It is unlikely we will see many new cameras. With the current market glut of film cameras, it does not appear profitable to market a new 35mm camera.

Cameras are nothing but a photographer's tools, and sometimes for my purposes, the other format is the right tool for me for a particular task. I have no compulsion to explain my reasons, and no desire to convert any analog-exclusive photographers. I just try to keep my digital opinions to myself when visiting APUG.
 

jbark

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I enjoy using both digital and film. If I want to digitize my film, I use use a pakon f135 negative scanner. I think both formats have their advantages and disadvantages, but shoot whatever you are comfortable with and be assured there will be film produced for many years to come. I still love the mystery of what I might have captured on a roll and how it will come out after it's developed. It does indeed have a certain look I don't think you can get from digital.
 

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Film is dead. I certainly hope so, it would be hell of a job loading it into the cameras if it wasn't.
In a video on shooting film there was the claim filmsales have indrejsen steadily since 2009. I think I found it through a link here but Ill look for it.
 

blockend

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Film is dead. I certainly hope so, it would be hell of a job loading it into the cameras if it wasn't.
In a video on shooting film there was the claim filmsales have indrejsen steadily since 2009. I think I found it through a link here but Ill look for it.
It would be interesting to know how much growth there has been in film use compared to the lowest point, and whether the drivers for that increase are likely to be long lived. Difficult to come by hard numbers from surviving film manufacturers, so the best indicator might be sales from a large photographic store.

I suspect film, like vinyl records and steam locomotives, was declared redundant from hype prematurely and became a self fulfilling prophesy. People had chance to reflect on the loss, and decided the brave new world wasn't all it was cracked up to be, and technological progress in recent years has slowed to a crawl. I didn't own a serious digital camera until 2011 and digital has played second fiddle to my film use ever since. Even so it's hard not to accept that digital image making and processing is in large part responsible for the survival of film as a viable medium.
 

FujiLove

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Maybe because they say...

Oh yes, I'm a total film nazi! But that's not the question I asked. I asked why the terms are always flung at film photographers but not digital ones. You cut my quote in half to twist it into a different question.
 

FujiLove

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It would be interesting to know how much growth there has been in film use compared to the lowest point, and whether the drivers for that increase are likely to be long lived. Difficult to come by hard numbers from surviving film manufacturers, so the best indicator might be sales from a large photographic store.

I suspect film, like vinyl records and steam locomotives, was declared redundant from hype prematurely and became a self fulfilling prophesy. People had chance to reflect on the loss, and decided the brave new world wasn't all it was cracked up to be, and technological progress in recent years has slowed to a crawl. I didn't own a serious digital camera until 2011 and digital has played second fiddle to my film use ever since. Even so it's hard not to accept that digital image making and processing is in large part responsible for the survival of film as a viable medium.

I recall reading recently that film sales have seen strong growth over the past couple of years. I want to say 50% per annum, but I don't know where I've got that figure from. Mind you, that's 50% of not very much!
 
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Obviously something is not "dead" while it is still alive.

This tiny bit of devastatingly obvious logic escapes so, so many...

:wink:

Ken
 

Sirius Glass

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I wonder how film only fundamentalists put their images on APUG

I am not a fundamentalist, I am just smart enough to know that digital cameras, except for remote sensing and selling stuff on eBay, are crap. I have a film scanner, I do not post my good photographs on the internet so I do not worry about them being stolen, and I do not own a digi-snapper camera.
 

blockend

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Oh yes, I'm a total film nazi! But that's not the question I asked. I asked why the terms are always flung at film photographers but not digital ones. You cut my quote in half to twist it into a different question.
I don't believe the terms are exclusive to film users. Forums are full of people making unsupportable claims without any evidence. That's the nature of the internet. If you'd care to offer some objective criteria as to why all digital cameras are "junk" we might have a discussion instead of a rant.
 

blockend

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I am not a fundamentalist, I am just smart enough to know that digital cameras, except for remote sensing and selling stuff on eBay, are crap.
Presumably you also consider the great photographers of the modern era even greater because they use such inefficient tools as digital cameras?
 

MattKing

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I don't think film is dead.

But this thread seems to be impossible to kill!

 

Sirius Glass

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Presumably you also consider the great photographers of the modern era even greater because they use such inefficient tools as digital cameras?

See post #100. Evidently you do not retain the contents of the posts which you read.
 
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