Is Color Developing Worth It?

[bags27]

Obviously, to each their own.

I have a ton of 120 film to develop from a recent trip. I can do 2, sometimes 4, rolls/day. Unlike developing B&W, it's pretty tedious and there is the inevitable occasional BLIX explosion (I know, I know: burp the tank).

Today, I figured I save around $6/roll developing my own. That factors in my water as well as the mix, and the postage to and from the lab I used to use. So, I save ~$12/hr for 2 rolls.

Everyone values time differently. I'm nearly 75, so you know how I value it.

I bought a boatload of C-41 when the pandemic began, figuring I'd do a lot of developing. But I have a lot of it left, since I'm completely enthralled with B&W. I figure I'll use it up and then send my color film out for development. I'll still scan the negs myself.

How do others feel?

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've done C-41 processing. My issue is to use up the chemistry fast enough before the chemistry goes bad.

 

[pentaxuser]

bags27, you seem to have decided what you want to do and presented reasons why you have reached your decision which is fine. Can I ask what you feel the relevance of others' thoughts are to your position?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Nitroplait]

C-41 is not worth it to me. I have a lab around the corner which is very fortunate.
BW is an entirely different matter. It has become a second nature and can be done while thinking about other things or listening to an audio book.

 

[bags27]

bags27, you seem to have decided what you want to do and presented reasons why you have reached your decision which is fine. Can I ask what you feel the relevance of others' thoughts are to your position?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Good question: thanks!

I know I've read of others figuring out how to dramatically extend C-41(involving more homebrewed bleach and fix) and that weighs a bit on me. And, I sort of hate giving up on a process which is part of film making.

But I suppose you've right: I'm mostly looking for confirmation. I had just come up from my darkroom and realized I had given up the one hour today when I could have been shooting rather than messing with my sous vide, etc.

 

[pentaxuser]

Good question: thanks!

I know I've read of others figuring out how to dramatically extend C-41(involving more homebrewed bleach and fix) and that weighs a bit on me. And, I sort of hate giving up on a process which is part of film making.

But I suppose you've right: I'm mostly looking for confirmation. I had just come up from my darkroom and realized I had given up the one hour today when I could have been shooting rather than messing with my sous vide, etc.

Looking for confirmation that you made the right decision? Well good luck there. I don't wish to be flippant but in what is a decision between home developing and the opportunity cost of so doing at the expense of shooting then I am unsure why others' views matter as your decision is particular to you and right for you

For instance I see no point in asking for confirmation that I married the right woman nearly 50 years ago What I did, I did for reasons that are pertinent only to me. Others' opinions are truly irrelevant as are mine in the case of similar decisions made the other nearly 100,000 members

Mind you, if I were young, free and single I suppose there might be some mileage in my starting a thread asking what I should look for when trying to find the best woman ever made. We have threads on the best film, best SLR etc ever made

So all you young free and single guys on Photrio give such a thread a shot . If I respond I promise not to give you the British end of pier comedian's recipe that the best woman to marry is a deaf and dumb nymphomaniac who owns a brewery

PS I guarantee my answer on the above will be of no use whatsoever to you "young bloods" on that perennial "cherchez la femme" hunt

I fear the same may be true of answers on your hunt, bags27

pentaxuser

 

[Paul Howell]

For what it is worth, once I shoot my last few of color I will not replace. Saying that, here in the Phoenix area a developing a roll of color costs $10 a roll. I can develop up to 8 rolls of 35mm in my Unicolor film tank, I think 5 rolls of 120, so I would develop my self. In terms of time, I get my bath to 100 degrees, then use the immersion heater to keep the temp in range.

 

[cmacd123]

can you get a tank that would let you do bigger batches? that may change your calculations. otherwise if your lab is trustworthy, you are quite right to calculate the value of your time.

 

[Tel]

I've just souped my 16th roll from a 1 liter batch of Unicolor C-41 I mixed on April 14. I think it cost about $35 including shipping, so approximately $2 per roll. I have no doubt, based on past experience, that I'll get 20 rolls before I retire this batch. (Just for the record, I count two sheets of 4x5 or 5x7 as "one roll".) I usually arbitrarily stop and mix a new batch after roll 20, though the developer rarely shows signs of imminent failure even then. I have had failures, though typically after 25 rolls or so. For me it's still well worth the effort.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use the Unicolor 1 liter kit in the Jobo processor. The kit can develop up to 16 rolls over a day or too. So developing the film is not a problem, but I do not want to take the time to make one or two sets of prints of every photograph, so I just sent it out.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I've done C-41 processing. My issue is to use up the chemistry fast enough before the chemistry goes bad.

Refrigerate/freeze it. And/or blow CO2 or canned "air" into the container.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I've done C-41 processing. My issue is to use up the chemistry fast enough before the chemistry goes bad.

I develop up to 16 rolls in two to three days. One batch after another.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

If you're developing via ECN-2 process, absolutely. C-41 is much more fickle as a DIY process but still produces fine results with some tuning. I'd opt for a C-41 lab if one were available and could generate satisfactory results at the right price w/ native C-41 films, especially if you're also ordering optical RA-4 prints.

I use separate acid stop / ferricyanide bleach / non-rapid fixer in all my color processing (C-41, E-6, ECN-2, ECP-2, RA-4, reversals) for universality, longevity, flexibility, and economy. The temperature is only really critical during a process with a color development step (i.e. CN or color reversal film). Even then it isn't as critical in a less crossover-prone process like ECN-2 as it is with C-41 if you're willing to tweak your filtration during printing.

 

[McDiesel]

@bags27 your feelings are understandable, especially if your lab produces good results. My life hack is to optimize everything not for results, and not for price, but for enjoyable experience. I love the look I'm getting out of C41 negatives, so I optimized the process to be fun:

• I have two tanks: one for 4 rolls and another for 2. Usually I can comfortably do two loads, so that's up to 8 rolls per day.
• I purchased a Heiland TAS film processor. Unlike JOBO, it's small, well built - so I enjoy the tactile feel of using it, works for both color and B&W (I do not believe in continuous agitation for B&W) and it takes care of the most tedious part - agitation.
• I also ditched JOBO's water bath. Its temperature control is slow, clunky and not accurate. Switched to fully automatic mode with the sous vide style heater. It is faster, dead accurate, ridiculously cheap and most importantly - automatic. I don't even use thermometers anymore.
• This gives consistent and repeatable results, speeds up the process tremendously, and removes any bleach accidents because agitation is extremely gentle.

I also optimized my chemistry for enjoyment:

• No more 2-bath kits. Their non-compliance with Z-131 always makes me feel uncomfortable. I crave the feeling of doing everything by the book.
• Switched to Kodak Flexicolor
• Very consistent routine: mix 1L of each chemical. Use developer one-shot for 4 rolls, use bleach and fixer for 8 rolls (two runs). There's probably more life in them, but that creates mental tax I don't need. This way I don't have to keep any records or remember anything.

At this point I can do C41 development completely on auto-pilot, almost like laundry. The results are superb too: no dust or fingerprints, perfectly consistent without any color casts, which allows me to re-use color conversion macros & profiles from roll to roll. I am pretty sure I'm not saving any money yet (factoring the cost of the film processor), it's just a good way to spend time on Saturday early afternoon, when the light is too harsh and it's too hot for hiking.

P.S. And even before making these changes, I moved away from Paterson tanks to JOBO tanks. They are more friendly to C41 because their lids never cause accidents. They have a built-in flexible section that just pops and expands under pressure, keeping the lid in place.

 

[gone]

I'd send it out, but then I only shoot B&W anyway. B&W film and darkroom printing offer the photographer a lot of control over the image, from start to finish.

Plus, B&W is totally abstract, while color is usually shot to accurately reproduce what was in front of the camera.

 

[koraks]

there is the inevitable occasional BLIX explosion (I know, I know: burp the tank).

Use a stop bath. It's cheap & expandable and does the explosion thing instead of the blix. Saves your blix/bleach.

How do others feel?

The commercial lab I used to use has turnaround times now that vary from 1 to more than 2 weeks. I'm not that patient....I can easily have a roll of film spend 2 months in the camera (unless I'm traveling), but when it's done, I want to see what I got...Home development solves that issue for me.
Besides, if there's any dust or scratches or other messups, there's nobody to blame but myself. Moreover, I can troubleshoot any problems and solve them - can I trust a commercial lab that struggles to find qualified (??) operators to do the same? 20 years ago, yes, but not today.

ECN-2 process, absolutely. C-41 is much more fickle

I don't see how C41 is more fickle than ECN2. Exactly the same rigor is needed to get on-par results. Of course, accurate color production from ECN2 film requires scanning & digital post processing so in that sense I suppose you could afford a little flexibility - after all, you can always fix it in post (!?) So if that's what you mean...yeah, sort of.

non-rapid fixer

Why waste time on a slow, low-capacity fixer if rapid fixer does the same job at higher capacity and still at low cost? Or by non-rapid you mean that it's color chemistry that's not for rapid-access processing? If you mean it in the regular sense, i.e. based on sodium thiosulfate, I would heartily recommend switching over to an ammonium thiosulfate version. Why remain stuck in the 1960s for no good reason?

JOBO tanks. They are more friendly to C41 because their lids never cause accidents.

You missed the burping accidents of OP, perhaps? Only yesterday I had one myself - popped the lid on a 1500 tank. Harmless, as I use stop bath, so no worries about half a cup of spillage - but to say that Jobo tanks aren't accident prone is sadly a misconception. They also leak, just like Paterson tanks. What gives?

I know I've read of others figuring out how to dramatically extend C-41(involving more homebrewed bleach and fix) and that weighs a bit on me.

Tread carefully. This rapidly turns into a penny-wise, pound-foolish situation with poor quality negatives to haunt you. If you want to save $$$, just buy bulk chemistry (Kodak flexicolor or Fuji, whatever is easiest for you to get your mitts on) and enjoy economical processing. Moreover, one of the cheapest things in C41 processing is the bleach. Yes, it's the highest-priced item, but reused and replenished it works out to mere cents per roll processed. Fixer is equally cheap and in fact I use C41 fixer for all my photography including most paper development because it's the cheapest fixer I can get...this is all Fuji-brand lab chemistry in quantities that are still practical for a home user.

My issue is to use up the chemistry fast enough before the chemistry goes bad.

C41 developer stored properly will last a looooong time. The current bath I'm on is well over 1 year old now and still going strong. It hasn't discolored and produces the same results as day 1. Used one shot, mixed working strength developer stored in full glass bottles.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Why waste time on a slow, low-capacity fixer if rapid fixer does the same job at higher capacity and still at low cost?

You make up for it in washing times and archive quality. Nevermind the presence of a hardening agent in the fixer or impact on paper toning.

What's your C-41 chemistry brand? Coke or Pepsi?

 

[MattKing]

There is no hardener in most Rapid fixers that I am aware of - unless you elect to add it.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

There is no hardener in most Rapid Fixers that I am aware of - unless you elect to add it.

Exception: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...058452_professional_kodafix_1qt_solution.html

{Edited by Matt King, to make it easier to figure out}

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I'm still partial to the quality control a good lab can afford. Where I live, I have one, but I wager that's not the case for everyone. If were a regular colour shooter, and lived outside the range of a lab, I'm sure C41 would be totally worth it.

But you need the volume for all colour processes, because the chemicals don't last. Still, every once in a while I splurge and buy stuff to print RA4. A properly hand-printed colour print has its charms that a lab print does not have.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I develop up to 16 rolls in two to three days. One batch after another.

You have better shooting habits than I do. When I'm retired, I'll shoot more color neg film. Do you reuse chemistry? If so, do you change your development with subsequent rolls?

 

[Sirius Glass]

You have better shooting habits than I do. When I'm retired, I'll shoot more color neg film. Do you reuse chemistry? If so, do you change your development with subsequent rolls?

Yes I reuse the chemicals and adjust for time as I develop the film.

 

[mshchem]

All of my local shops are gone. I really miss being able to drop off a roll of 35mm and get develop and print on my choice of Kodak or Fuji papers. Snapshots. I have all the chemistry for color, I come and go on my excitement about color. I think I'm going to shoot slides this summer, fun to develop and project.

 

[koraks]

You make up for it in washing times and archive quality.

You'll have to educate me. AFAIK sodium thiosulfate and ammonium thiosulfate wash out at similar rates; that is to say, the silver complexes they form wash out similarly. Ammonium thiosulfate will wash slightly easier.

Nevermind the presence of a hardening agent in the fixer or impact on paper toning.

The presence of a hardening agent doesn't hurt anything. If that's also about toning: it won't make much of a difference as most of the toning will occur before the emulsion is hardened. Moreover, today's papers are mostly hardened quite thoroughly to begin with, so the presence of a hardener in the fixer won't have much real-world impact anyway. Apart from perhaps Foma papers, which tend to be softer than most others.

What's your C-41 chemistry brand? Coke or Pepsi?

Fuji due to availability.
Coincidentally, Fuji color fixer is economical, fast, has large capacity, AFAIK does not contain hardener, is near-pH neutral and does not appear to interfere with toning in the least. Give it a try, you might like it. If not, I'll leave the jar of sodium thiosulfate I must have around here somewhere to you in my will

 

[bags27]

Just want to say how grateful I am to all of you for pitching in. It's sort of renewed my enthusiasm for color developing. I realize that most of this is about materials and techniques, not so much about outcomes (which is what drives our obsession with B&W development). But still, it's very, very interesting.

I'm wondering if there's a book or article that sets out the Kodak kit (how to use; refresh, etc) and/or seperate bleach and fixer and what to buy. I'm trying to disentangle all this, but I know that Unique and other stores sell products designed also/instead for the professional, and I don't want to order the wrong thing. Also curious about bleach bypass.

Also, as I begin scanning, I'm starting to feel gratified by the effort I put in yesterday. Here: Lake Tahoe with Mamiya 7 43mm Portra 400 @200 in Unicolor. I'm always astonished by how sharp Mamiya glass is. Thanks again!