Is anyone making orotone prints anymore

[blindpig]

Yesterday the wife and I visited "The Top Of The Rock"museum and saw some examples of these prints by Edward Curtis and am smitten with the beauty of his images done with this technique.
Have done a little web surfing to learn about the process and haven't seen any examples that compare with his,of course I understand that standing in front of an actual print differs greatly from internet displayed pictures.
Would like any thoughts and technical information you all might share...
Don

 

[removed account4]

hi don

i haven' theard that name in a long time
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

matthew was making them ( 9 years ago ! )
never ran across anyone since ...

john

 

[blindpig]

I'm sorely tempted to try printing on pan film a slightly under exposed positive and coat the emulsion side with a bronze lacquer just to see if it would come close to resembling Elliot's orotones(or curt-tones).Like I need another photographic interest,LOL!
Don

 

[paul_c5x4]

I have done a couple or three small ones (5x4). Due to the price of gold, on the last batch, I used a bronze powder. Aside from the cost issue with gold, another problem you may have is trying to find banana oil. In reality, there are quite a few other adhesives that can be used such as gelatin size, acrylics, or even model aircraft dope.

 

[blindpig]

Paul, thanks for your comment.A long time ago I worked in the silk screen department of a large greeting card company and we made"gold" ink using bronze powder in lacquer to produce it. I think it would work well for this application but am having a difficult time locating finely ground bronze powder in relatively small quantities in the USA,so am considering trying pre-mixed gold colored silk screen ink.Usually these inks are viscous and should lay down a smooth layer on a film or glass plate.Funny you should mention model aircraft dope as it was called banana oil back in my day.

 

[paul_c5x4]

[...] but am having a difficult time locating finely ground bronze powder in relatively small quantities in the USA

Have a look for artist supplies - In the UK, Roberson do 25g pots of metal powders. Also available on ebay under Arts & Craft.

For the last prints I did, I coated the reverse of the glass with am adhesive and then dusted the bronze powder on. As the powder is very fine, it goes everywhere, so the front face needs masking off beforehand.

 

[NedL]

Don I hope you post a photo if you make one. There are also various "gold leaf" kits that come with something like bronze powder paint, I think.
I would love to see one of Edward Curtis' orotones in person. You can still purchase Dead Link Removed, but not "curt-tones".

 

[blindpig]

Thanks Paul I may look in to that,but being frugal(read cheap)am trying to avoid shipping costs across the pond.
Ned, I'll be sure and post one if and when I have a finished print worth sharing.You know me,presently I'm involved with finishing a condenser enlarger that will also print paper negatives reflectively. Still love the look of in-camera paper negatives but we've had some wonderful cloudscapes here lately, so needing to capture them have resorted to using some film and that has led to needing a 4X5 transmission enlarger.My very small dark room won't allow two enlargers Sooo the new multi purpose enlarger build.In the interim been shooting the clouds with an antique 35mm Kodak Retina IIa 60 plus year old camera using Kodak T-Max 100 film with a K2 filter.However can't wait till the enlarger is finished and can move back to 4x5 size negatives both paper and film.
Ned, again you'll remember I've been trying to hold back on trying more alternative techniques but those Orotones of Edward Curtis's are hard to resist and as you've said seeing one in person is compelling,so I must give it a try though I can't imagine they will come close to his.

 

[blindpig]

I finally have a try at oro-tone printing. Have lots of improvement ahead I hope. Using Arista Ortho lith film and very dilute Dektol,arrived at a fairly representative print which is coated with"Liquid Leaf" gold paint.Not sure this will remain my go to gold.Will also need to perfect application some what.
Sadly my copier recorded Newtons rings along with the image and the metallic effect seems poor as well.
But all that said,here it is:

What do ya think?
Don

 

[NedL]

Cool! It's probably impossible to make a digital version that shows the metallic shimmer, but we can imagine! It probably needs to be viewed in the right kind of light to fully appreciate. I like this subject for this kind of print!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Aside from the cost issue with gold, another problem you may have is trying to find banana oil./QUOTE]

Banana oil is isoamyl acetate. Many esters contribute to the fragrance of various fruits. Amyl acetate is responsible for the fragrance of bananas. It is available on Amazon and from several other suppliers.

 

[blindpig]

I must be slipping,I was in such a hurry to post my first attempt that didn't even think about photographing it using a reflector...so one will be forthcomming.Sorry for the poor scanned first attachment

 

[blindpig]

This represents the orotone a little better but still not really acurate.

 

[NedL]

platinum on vellum with gold leaf:

http://www.suntomoon.com/pages/burkholder_gold_images.html

http://www.danburkholder.com/platinumpalladium-over-gold-leaf.html

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/platinum/palladium-over-gold-leaf-on-vellum

The "road on moor" and Amish carriage at the first link are striking.

 

[jeffreyg]

I have made several platinum/palladium prints on vellum backed with 24 carat gold leaf as per Dan Burkholder's cd instructions. They are quite nice. I also tried a couple with silver leaf. As I understand it platinum leaf is not available in the US. You would have to use palladium leaf instead. I got the gold leaf and Aqua Size (adhesive sizing) from L. A. Gold Leaf www.lagoldleaf.com . Get the transfer type. Years ago I saw some Curtis prints which I recall his images were on glass as there was no film and they appeared to be backed with gold.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[jeffreyg]

Here are a couple of mine. The film was Ilford HP5. Platinum/palladium on cotton vellum backed by 24 carat gold leaf sprayed with Krylon Kamar varnish. Unretouched straight scans.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[blindpig]

Thanks for the links to Dan Burkholder's beautiful pictures Ned.Always love to see new/old stuff.
Really like your images as well Jeffery,am glad to see folks including the golden glow in their pics.
I've been working on my technique and am satisfied with it now and am looking forward to producing some of my images this way. I should hasten to say it's not the same as you folk are using but satisfying just the same(to me).
Ned, it might interest you to know I came up with a way to make my paper negatives result in right reading( Don style) orotones,as the image reads through the base of the final film. I placed a first surface mirror below the lens of my reflective enlarger and put the easel vertically against the wall,projecting horizontally thereby reversing the image. Somewhat strange but it bothered me that the finished image was reversed.
Hope to have some pic's to share soon.
Don

 

[Wayne]

Have a look for artist supplies - In the UK, Roberson do 25g pots of metal powders. Also available on ebay under Arts & Craft.

For the last prints I did, I coated the reverse of the glass with am adhesive and then dusted the bronze powder on. As the powder is very fine, it goes everywhere, so the front face needs masking off beforehand.

How does the bronze compare to the gold in the final print?

 

[Wayne]

Nevermind. I wasn't familiar with this process but it seems it is/was usually done with bronze rather than gold anyway

 

[NedL]

I'm considering trying the poor man's version... with silver and bronze instead of platinum and gold!

 

[blindpig]

Looking forward to seeing your prints Ned.

 

[Wayne]

I'm considering trying the poor man's version... with silver and bronze instead of platinum and gold!

Why silver instead of zinc? I'm intrigued by this process.

 

[NedL]

I just meant the image would be formed by silver and the backing would be bronze ( or maybe bronze + zinc, if that's what's in the inexpensive "gold leafing" kits )

 

[Wayne]

Ah. Gotcha.

 

[Wayne]

Would a person be able to get suitable bronze powder from a machine shop? Also, is there something about powder that is essential to the effect, like a light scattering effect? Or can you get the same effect by placing a bronze colored object behind a glass print? I'm guessing the scatter is important but am not certain...