Is 4800ws in a standard reflector too bright for the eyes?

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Qebs

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Thanks everyone again for your help and time.

I'm currently researching high power LED panels.
I might try to make one or two with help.

Take care and thanks again!
 

M Carter

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I've got the $700-ish Lightstorm panel, but it's not near the output of strobes.

I'd think a bigger question is "why just a reflector", unless your style is to have very harsh light. I've been doing 4x5 portraits with maybe 5000 WS going per pop, but key light, BG, fill, etc, 4 or 5 Speedo packs, but all through diffusion or grids, usually the key is through a 6' x 4' panel. That makes the light much more palatable for the subject.
 
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Qebs

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Hello M Carter,

Even though I have a fine arts degree in Photography, I don't think I have a style yet.
The reason for the standard reflector is to play around with the magazine/editorial style direct light (against a white wall or similar minimal background).
But yep, I agree, soft light is so beautiful.

How do your subjects feel with the 5000ws?

I don't have anything 6' x 4', though it would be pretty awesome if I did and the 9600ws head I have would be powerful enough to use your panel (scrim?).

Cheers :smile:
 

wiltw

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I don't have anything 6' x 4', though it would be pretty awesome if I did and the 9600ws head I have would be powerful enough to use your panel (scrim?).
Why on earth do yout think you need 9600 w-s going thru one head?!?!
  • Portraitists usually make do with under 500 w-s, so they can use fairly open apertures for desired DOF control. In shooting portraits on location I might split power from one 500 w-s power pack into two heads that are ratio'd in their output...maybe 250 w-s thru one and 125 or 62 w-s thru another head.
  • Guys shooting automobiles on set have monster softboxes overhead that outsize the automobile being shot, and there are multiple heads inside that softbox in order to even out the illumination acress the full area of the softbox.
I have never seen more than 4800 w-s ever used for location product shots for commercial ads.

This was shot for a charity fundraiser 30 years ago, and I used 500 w-s pack and two heads, one of them shot thru a 6' x 3' translucent panel for Fill, and a small softbox for Main.
Hope_zpsoc2lpiet.jpg
 
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Pieter12

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Why on earth do yout think you need 9600 w-s going thru one head?!?!
  • Portraitists usually make do with under 500 w-s, so they can use fairly open apertures for desired DOF control. In shooting portraits on location I might split power from one 500 w-s power pack into two heads that are ratio'd in their output...maybe 250 w-s thru one and 125 or 62 w-s thru another head.
  • Guys shooting automobiles on set have monster softboxes overhead that outsize the automobile being shot, and there are multiple heads inside that softbox in order to even out the illumination acress the full area of the softbox.
I have never seen more than 4800 w-s ever used for location product shots for commercial ads.
I believe the OP is talking about ISO 1-3. 500WS is not going to cut it.
 
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Qebs

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Hello Wiltw,

Yep, I want to experiment with the direct positive color reversal process.
The paper has a sensitivity of 10-16, and after introducing color gels I believe the effective ISO is 1-3.

I know people who shoot wet plate collodion portraits with Speedotron systems.
I won't share an example image for copy right/respect reason, but a person in Northern USA shared a portrait they did with wet plate, and they used, two 9600 ws heads (key and phil in softboxes), 2400ws kicker, and 4800ws for the background light.

I've attached the lighting diagram they sent me. The portrait is absolutely gorgeous!

~~~

Thanks again everyone!
 

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M Carter

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Hello M Carter,

Even though I have a fine arts degree in Photography, I don't think I have a style yet.
The reason for the standard reflector is to play around with the magazine/editorial style direct light (against a white wall or similar minimal background).
But yep, I agree, soft light is so beautiful.

How do your subjects feel with the 5000ws?

I don't have anything 6' x 4', though it would be pretty awesome if I did and the 9600ws head I have would be powerful enough to use your panel (scrim?).

Cheers :smile:

I have a Westscott Scrim Jim system, but you can do things like a PVC frame and some ripstop nylon; when i want a big, bright set, I just hang white fabric in big sheets, if I'm not looking for directional-looking light.

One thing I've done a lot is take the 11" speedotron reflector and a grid, but I put a circle of white mylar behind the grid - it's sort of "soft yet hard", the 11" speedo is just killer for stuff with grids. I may use one of those hitting face and upper body along with a big soft key.

And the 5000ws isn't strictly pointed at their faces, most is in the key light, but there's background lighting and fill and so on. But not usual to have around 3000 through diffusion as a key, but an experienced model is used to that, and an amateur seems to get used to it pretty quickly - this for 4x5 and wanting a lot of DOF.

This is an 11" Speedo/grid/mylar along with a larger diffused panel (BG was lit with tungsten and shot at like 1/2 second to blur it a bit, and this was Ektachrome tungsten pushed like 3 stops):

UZ8iz7N.jpg
 

AgX

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Yep, I want to experiment with the direct positive color reversal process.
Could you explain on this?


In photoengineering:

-) "direct positive" means a process where in 1 developing stage a positive shows up
(as in special classic films based on solarisation, but also as in b&w Polaroid, colour Polaroid, Tinplate, Daguerreotype etc.)

-) "reversal process" means a 2-stage process, involving two developing stages
 
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Qebs

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Hello M Carter,

Thanks for your awesome reply and example image.
So you are using the 11" sort of as like a beauty dish (with grid) and a large soft fill light (large scrim)?
May I ask what was the light to subject distances?
I only ask because with an iso of 3-12ish - if the lights are too far away (and thus maybe more comfortable for the subject),
I might not get enough light.

My original thoughts were to do the Felix Kunze lighting.
That is two lights - One big soft box (in my case pretty close) on the subject (Felix would feather the light), and another relatively large
light source in axis with the camera as a fill light to bring up value of the shadowed areas.
I just know that a Wet plate collodion photographer is using giant softboxes and still, their subjects get vision problems for a few seconds after the flash. Thus I'm thinking a lot and researching now on building my own high powered LED light panel. But this brings with it, problems due to spectral sensitivity of the paper and the not full sprectrum of the LED lights.

I'm reaching out to people to see if the LED panel is a good idea. But I do think with help from some of my uber smart friends, we could build a panel.

For example. the CreamSource model Spacex LED light is 1200 watts (not equivalent) at around 110,000 lumens.
I got the manufacturer to get a light meter reading, and they got at ISO 3, 1/8th of a second to 1/2 a second at F/5.6 - with a subject to light distance of 3-4 feet. I think this would be perfect in terms of amount of light, but these lights cost anywhere from $6500 usd to $18,000.
I just don't have that kind of money, but I got advice from some forums (discord) and I think I could build one for around $1200.

Thanks again :smile:

~~~

Hello AgX -

Here' some videos on the direct positive color reversal process.
There are also videos of doing this in black and white, but the contrast is too much for me.





 

removed account4

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Greetings,

Could somebody tell me if 4800ws is too bright for the eyes if it's in a standard reflector about 4 feet away?

I'm slowly trying to get into alternative analog processes and will need a lot of light but don't want to damage people's eyes.

I know some wet plate people use 4800ws or 9600ws but they are using light softening modifiers and
I would like to try some direct lighting.

Thanks so much!
Be well :smile:

Best Regards,
Kevin H.

hi Kevin
I guess some people swear by bright lights like that but I wouldn't use lights that bright ..
I sat for someone about a year ago who used bright-stuff like that, and it was extremely uncomfortable
and I hope my vision wasn't messed with, it was like the sun bright. ..
im not sure if you know any platers near you who use bright-stuff, ask to be seated in the light and you will
see what it's like, personally I wouldn't subject anyone to anything I wouldn't experience myself. ...
good luck !
John
 

wiltw

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OP, set up on experiment on YOURSELF...sit in front of your lights which you believe will be bright enough...
  1. If you think you will shoot at f/4 at ISO3, add 5EV for an ISO100 exposure, which would be f/22
  2. Measure the light with a meter to see that your lighting is f/22 in intensity
  3. Sit in front of it for half an hour
You will know your light is 'bright enough' and you will know how uncomfortable any portrait sitter would be during a shoot!
 
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I have a Dynalite M2000 power pack...2000w-s.
Years ago I measured my Dynalite M2000 which has 2000 w-s of power into a Dynalite 4040 head, and at ISO 200 it was about GN380, or f/38 at 10'
4000 w-s would be about GN538, or f/54 at 10'

Great response. Thank you.
 
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Qebs

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Good advice wiltw
Thank you!

Maybe I'll try this weekend with the 4800 ws head in soft box.

Cheers :smile:
 
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