Ionizing air blower for anti-static effect in lens and camer repair?

[Donald Qualls]

I have a static master brush designed for vinyl records. Scratched the hell out of a negative.

Really?

As I recall, the Static Master record brushes were one of the very early applications for carbon fiber. Conductive, so it did an even better job of sucking the static off the vinyl -- but too stiff and sharp on the tips for negatives. There were versions with camel hair as well, and should should work fine on negatives.

 

[eli griggs]

Just the public forum style... just passing the important info the way I would have wanted to see it when I was a youngster. In regular life... big fan of sly practical jokes, and I learned long ago that if people don't know me well that I have to tell them when I'm being sarcastic - else they'll say, "oh, I thought you were being serious." On the internet... well it just takes away the fun of a joke. Plus, there's always someone from somewhere who is gonna be genuinely offended.

Btw, my familiarity with anti-static goes much deeper - we used to use several dozen 3M polonium 210 devices in our lab ops - yearly leases, individually licensed by the (US) Nuclear Regulatory Commission with my name on the license. And if I don't know what I'm getting into I don't go there. If the devices were under a certain rating, like Static Master, no license was required, which always amazed me; you could buy a handful and be in the same place, but evade record keeping requirements.

Ps, our standard demo, when someone says, "how do you know it's even DOING anything?" used to be to take a strip of scrap film, wipe it against another such piece, maybe a couple of wipes, then pass it over a well-used ashtray. If the humidity is fairly low ashes will just jump up and stick to the film. Then, as you bring the ionizer closer the ashes will just start falling off. Or if you have a static meter the reading will go way down. If the ionizer is small, or older, it mainly just takes longer (or you have to get it closer) for the effect to happen.

That's interesting to know, so perhaps, for the sake of further discussion, if someone took the active strips from two 3 in. carts, and joined them to a probe, wood or otherwise, they could be lowered down to or near a problem area in a camera or lens, or rather UP , so the dust might fall free from the insides of the target device?

Could this work and leave behind enough of the effect to let like treated glass, metal and plastic elements to be reassembled, IYO?

 

[eli griggs]

As I recall, the Static Master record brushes were one of the very early applications for carbon fiber. Conductive, so it did an even better job of sucking the static off the vinyl -- but too stiff and sharp on the tips for negatives. There were versions with camel hair as well, and should should work fine on negatives.

Yes, Ive been speaking to Static Master darkroom and camera brushes, with a very fine, long hair element.

I did no know a stiffer version was on the market.

Thanks for the information and clearing that up for me.

Eli

 

[eli griggs]

Yes, Eli... to help reduce dust during reassembly, keep the parts under lint free cloth like Kim Wipes, have a duster can nearby to blow particles off, and just realize essentially there’s always going to be some small amount of dust on the lens and there’s not much that can be done about it.

But that’s ok because to actually affect the image, there would need to be a massive amount of dust on the surfaces. Better to focus on keeping smudges, fingerprints, fungus, etc off the surfaces.

Well, that's all fine if you're a well balanced individual, however it drives me a little nuts, having reassembled a lens only to later see dust in what should be a "cleaned" lens or viewfinder.

Actually, I just like to try to see how to "solve" a Problem, or at least how far I might go before moving on to another task.

I also believe, if we pay attention, to the life we live in the world we surround, then those lessons learned become tools in our own creative and problem solving tool box and each and everyone of them, is somehow applicable to other fields of endeavor.

Plus I just like to talk an issue's possibilities out, to see what others can see that I do no.

Cheers

 

[Nodda Duma]

Don’t worry I used to be the same way (and am with optics at work), but I also know the actual effect on functionality.

 

[GRHazelton]

The polonium insert ionizing brushes were commonly sold for cleaning record discs, for those old enough to remember what those are. Removing the dust from the groove both improved playback sound (fewer pops and crackles) and increased the longevity of the record itself (kept the diamond stylus from gouging those dust flecks into the relatively soft vinyl of the record surface and making a permanent pop-crackle). In fact, there was at least one of these that mounted to the cartridge itself, brushing the surface of the record several turns ahead of the stylus as the record was played.

High end Shure pickups had a tiny carbon fiber brush which tracked the record. In addition to discharging the vinyl record and removing some of the dust the brush assembly furnished a damping effect on the cantilever displacement when tracking record warps. I use the last V15 MRV pickup in my Acoustic Research ES-1 turntable, the little brush is quite effective. The pickup will track reliably at about 1 gram. Good sound, too.
There is or was a pistol-like "gun" which produced a stream of ions. Zerostat is a name which comes to mind. Squeezing the trigger flexed a pizeoelectric element, generating a pulse of high voltage which then went to a needle, spraying ions. It worked fairly well; I have one somewhere.

 

[eli griggs]

High end Shure pickups had a tiny carbon fiber brush which tracked the record. In addition to discharging the vinyl record and removing some of the dust the brush assembly furnished a damping effect on the cantilever displacement when tracking record warps. I use the last V15 MRV pickup in my Acoustic Research ES-1 turntable, the little brush is quite effective. The pickup will track reliably at about 1 gram. Good sound, too.
There is or was a pistol-like "gun" which produced a stream of ions. Zerostat is a name which comes to mind. Squeezing the trigger flexed a pizeoelectric element, generating a pulse of high voltage which then went to a needle, spraying ions. It worked fairly well; I have one somewhere.

Cheers.

I wonder, if a Static Master Brush incorporated an under 'hair' of carbon fiber, say .75 in. or so, into the soft long hairs of a darkroom/photographer's if that combination, plus the radioactive element, would see any improvement in function?

Or am I still confusing function with hoped for results?

Be Healthy, Be Happy and Godspeed to all and your own,
Eli

 

[mshchem]

I've got one of these beasties, mine even has a air hose hooked up to the brush. It's something like a 5 kV transformer, has a vacuum to ionize, vacuum and brush clean negatives upto 8x10. Total over kill. I think it creates enough of an EMP when you turn it off that it will scramble your electronic gear.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-dust-and-static-removal-unit.125338/

I just use DRY compressed air, with a end point filter, and a nice virgin vintage Kodak Camel hair brush.

The OLD Staticmaster brushes used an isotope of Polonium, (radioactive) banned for obvious reasons. They worked great!

 

[Kodachromeguy]

I still have two of the 1 inch StaticMaster brushes. Mine definitely are camel hair. The polonium expired 2+ decades ago. Until about 5 or 10 years ago, you could still buy replacement polonium units, and I recall a B&H price of $50.

 

[eli griggs]

I still have two of the 1 inch StaticMaster brushes. Mine definitely are camel hair. The polonium expired 2+ decades ago. Until about 5 or 10 years ago, you could still buy replacement polonium units, and I recall a B&H price of $50.

You can buy new, below.

https://www.adorama.com/cpsmb3.html...E&gclsrc=aw.ds&utm_source=nmpi-google-dsa-new

 

[Donald Qualls]

There is or was a pistol-like "gun" which produced a stream of ions. Zerostat is a name which comes to mind. Squeezing the trigger flexed a pizeoelectric element, generating a pulse of high voltage which then went to a needle, spraying ions. It worked fairly well; I have one somewhere.

That's the one I was trying to remember. I knew someone who had one, between that and a wiper brush that incorporated a little fast-drying fluid that came in a little dropper bottle, you could make a record play like brandn new, and last dozens of playings without damage (though the vinyl will still eventually show wear from the forces of driving the diamond stylus to reproduce the sound). A Zerostat might be welcome for enlarging or scanning -- no contact, and it neutralizes the surface pretty well. That and a Rocket blow-brush should be enough.

 

[Mr Bill]

for the sake of further discussion, if someone took the active strips from two 3 in. carts, and joined them to a probe, wood or otherwise, they could be lowered down to or near a problem area in a camera or lens, or rather UP , so the dust might fall free from the insides of the target device?

Well no, probably not. It would bleed off any static charge, so whatever is held thusly would fall off. But static charges generally occur on a non-conductive part as a result of rubbing something on it. So if you couldn't reach the part to begin with it's doubtful that it could become, and stay charged.

With respect to the cigarette ash on film that I referred to, not all of the ash would fall back off - only the heavier particles.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

That's the one I was trying to remember. I knew someone who had one, between that and a wiper brush that incorporated a little fast-drying fluid that came in a little dropper bottle, you could make a record play like brandn new, and last dozens of playings without damage (though the vinyl will still eventually show wear from the forces of driving the diamond stylus to reproduce the sound). A Zerostat might be welcome for enlarging or scanning -- no contact, and it neutralizes the surface pretty well. That and a Rocket blow-brush should be enough.

The brush to which you are referring is the D3 Discwasher® . You used it with D4 Hi-Technology Record Cleaning Fluid. I suspect this magic fluid was some liquid that contained no solids and dried quickly, like the lens cleaning liquid that your optometrist gives you with a packet of cleaning cloths when you buy new glasses. I know about the Discwasher because I have one right here next to my desk. I use it with my Linn turntable. But honestly, I find it easier to puff off dust from a record with a rubber squeeze bulb.

As for negatives: the StaticMasters no longer dissipate static. I also have a Kinetronics StaticWisk®, which is supposed to generate a charge when you brush it over a negative. I use it with 4×5" negatives, and it is sort-of effective. But I am in a 95-year-old Southern house with lots of lint and dust. It is bordering on hopeless. Each time the air conditioners come on, there is the air and dust flow, despite the HEPA filters.

 

[AgX]

I also have a Kinetronics StaticWisk®, which is supposed to generate a charge when you brush it over a negative.

No. To the contray it is designed not to generate a charge, but to dissipate such from the object, to the ground, by means of conductive fibres and handle. It thus is a passive means.
The active devices, as from Kinetronics too, charge the surrounding air, by this producing ions, which then again counter the charge of particles found on the object surface.

 

[GRHazelton]

That's the one I was trying to remember. I knew someone who had one, between that and a wiper brush that incorporated a little fast-drying fluid that came in a little dropper bottle, you could make a record play like brandn new, and last dozens of playings without damage (though the vinyl will still eventually show wear from the forces of driving the diamond stylus to reproduce the sound). A Zerostat might be welcome for enlarging or scanning -- no contact, and it neutralizes the surface pretty well. That and a Rocket blow-brush should be enough.

The fluid you mention is LAST record preservative. Here is a link to the producer https://thelastfactory.com/ The preservative is applied to a thoroughly cleaned record; in my experience LASTed records seem to have a lower static charge and seem to sound better following being LASTed. Of course, as a fellow vinyl devotee, YMMV.

 

[AgX]

Back to the initial question: are there proven tinkerer's solutios on the field of electrical ionizers?

 

[Donald Qualls]

The person I mentioned with the Zerostat actually had LAST as well as the Discwasher. Whenever he'd get a new album, he'd treat with the LAST, but everyone in the house was expected to use the Discwasher and Zerostat every playing.

An ion gun isn't a particularly complicated electronics project, and it's easy to get 10 kV or more out of line current -- but the simple version isn't particularly safe; 10 kV without a very strict current limiter can be lethal.

 

[Kilgallb]

Really?

Yes, really.