Interview

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

maybe ... there is an underground of people who slit larger sizes
and put them in 110 cartridges

Can you conect us with "the 110 underground"

 

[removed account4]

Can you conect us with "the 110 underground"

i can try, but i have been ABOVE ground for a while now ...
i'll poke around and see what i can do

 

[Prest_400]

That is true. We are working on this as well as on 1.000 other things. There were three obstacles in the beginning and we got it boiled down to just one today.

Hats off Mirko for managing the company with all the obstacles there are in such a niche market.
Adox Pan 100/400 which have been on hold, I suppose for the numerous reasons given and assumed (financing, prices, competition) and well, CHSII which took a lot of resources.

Can you conect us with "the 110 underground"

Film Ferrania didn't want to manufacture 110 and/or 126 too? They should have the machinery, or someone else has it around.
I recall you gave a favourable opinion of the project on a visit you had to their facilities. It's been a while since they said anything, but the last word was that they were still progressing with the set up. Their barries are tougher with colour. As of ADOX, could a possible future collaboration go on in the future (finishing on 110/126 etc)?

I recall Simon Galley saying that they pursued some partners for 220 finishing and they declined (I might suppose that is Kodak or Fuji), too bad 220 is in the situation it is. Understandable, though.

I am a colour shooter, I should give B&W a try when I have some better circumstances (no DR or time for it). Do love the tonality and range of B&W negs. A characteristic I find nice archival wise for CHS100 is the polyester base, which theoretically should be more stable than acetate.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Film Ferrania didn't want to manufacture 110 and/or 126 too? They should have the machinery, or someone else has it around.

110 Film is readily available in color and b&w from Lomography. Why in the world would anyone start manufacturing it as well?
In the end it will just be to little demand for everyone with two companies loosing money again.
Ferranias 110 puncher is here in our factory. We built a new machine around it because the orignal setup was for millions of films and quite complex. At Ferranias it was just punching and rewinding and another machine was spooling, placing into the cartridge and sealing all in one pass. Our machine slits, punches and chops to stripes. They shall then be manually wound and the cartridges shall be glued manually as well. Sofar for the theory

 

[darkosaric]

I am not infrared film fun - but I see many people keep asking and asking. Mirko - maybe you can start Kickstarter Campaign (with calculation how many is needed for initial production)? When Lomography got one million $ for just another instax mini camera...

 

[pdeeh]

Kickstarter can get it going, but won;t make it profitable and therefore sustainable:

A new film kickstarted by community help can only survive if the same community is willing to buy substantial amounts of this film in the future at higher prices than the current market prices for film. This anticipates ofcourse that you are talking about reintroducing something which has been canceled by another manufacturer earlier due to diminishing profits.

After all film is a consumable. Kickstarter can be a great tool to pay for the initial setup costs but the other is more important or it will be a one day fly.

 

[StoneNYC]

110 Film is readily available in color and b&w from Lomography. Why in the world would anyone start manufacturing it as well?
In the end it will just be to little demand for everyone with two companies loosing money again.
Ferranias 110 puncher is here in our factory. We built a new machine around it because the orignal setup was for millions of films and quite complex. At Ferranias it was just punching and rewinding and another machine was spooling, placing into the cartridge and sealing all in one pass. Our machine slits, punches and chops to stripes. They shall then be manually wound and the cartridges shall be glued manually as well. Sofar for the theory

Well, Lomography doesn't MAKE the film, they have someone like YOU make it for them *hint* and they lnow color films that IMPLODE *double hint* so you are right up their ally ... This is why you should make 110

Also, I watch CatLabs (JOBO reseller) on eBay, he sells about 1 JOBO 110 reel a week at twice the price of any other reel, so it must be popular... You only need 1-2 your entire life so even that little sales means there is a larger demand.

 

[Brian Puccio]

Hello Mirko!

First, thanks for taking the time to do this.

Second, thanks to you and Adox for making such awesome B&W film and paper.

In the interview, you mentioned reversal:

Our films are for example optimized for reversal process, are offered in the largest off the shelf variety of sheet film sizes or in case of CMS 20 have the highest resolution of all halftone recording materials.

I love your CMS 20, it's the only B&W I shoot (unless it is too dark, then the last of the Neopan 1600). I've tried reversing CMS 20 a few times, never got it quite right. Has anyone at Adox (or elsewhere that you know of) found a good procedure to reverse it?

Thanks!

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Well in the end it is always an economical and not a technical problem.
In this case it is a good example for the difficulties one faces today if he wants to manufacture a film product.
The starting problem is that the manufacturers of sensitizing dyes ceased business except for a few. The result is that we cannot ask them for samples anymore. Synthesis is expensive. To make a sample costs the same as to make a Kilo (which will last a lifetime).
Now you start and order the first Kilo (roughly 8.000 EUR). Then you use 1/10th of a gramm and find out it does not work with your emulsion. Then the next 8.000 EUR are due and so on. You might be lucky and spend 16.000 EUR only but you can easily end up with 80.000 EUR or more.
At current market prices not even the first 8.000 EUR are possible to recover from sales. Unless you can be certain that people will buy your IR film at double or triple the price without impact on sales volumes (else you don´t win aynthing). I am not so optimistic about this though.

Many thanks for your straightforward reply.

As one who pledged to the New55 Film Kickstarter project I recall that their concerns were not just about securing the initial enthusiastic startup money, but also the need for long-term sustainability of product sales as well. Once the initial novelty of the new product wears off, the product must continue to sell, hopefully beyond the point of recovering all startup costs, and then eventually making some level of profit. All the time while likely costing significantly more than previous similar products.

So I do understand your lack of optimism.

Thanks again,
Ken

 

[madgardener]

I as not aware of a market for cartridges. We have cartridges in stock when we stopped the project due to Lomography entering the market with a 110 film. Do you think anyone would buy them?

As for 110 cartridges, I bet you could post them on Ebay, or sell them to lomography.

 

[ntenny]

Hi Mirko,

Thanks very much for doing this (the interview and this thread on it).

Without giving away "trade secrets" of the marketplace, can you give a general idea of how well CHS II is working out? I remember you expressed some concern about the need to raise the price significantly as compared to the original CHS/Efke, and it seems that the feasibility of other emulsions in the family depends on how this first one does. Since I'm eagerly awaiting a possible CHS II 25, I have some interest in the outcome.

-NT

 

[Jessestr]

Mirko

Thanks again for taking this interview for The Film Foundation. I'm currently busy designing something for the "captured on film" logo. I'd like to partner with Adox for this.

Plan:
- Set up a website capturedonfilm.com (or .net, whatever)
- Give the user the ability to download the logo in high resolution and maybe customized for their needs
- Adox logo on the website
- An album of lovely shots shot on film which can be contributed by users

Are you in?

 

[baachitraka]

I wish they introduce stuff for photo framing sooner or later.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I love your CMS 20, it's the only B&W I shoot (unless it is too dark, then the last of the Neopan 1600). I've tried reversing CMS 20 a few times, never got it quite right. Has anyone at Adox (or elsewhere that you know of) found a good procedure to reverse it?

Yes, we had quite good results in regular Scala process done at Photostudio13 in Stuttgart. Dmax is not as good as Silvermax. This trade off has to be accepted but the results are in any case projectable and cerate a "wow effect". We tried to find grain in the projection but we couldn´t. We had to move the projector so far away that the projection was to dark to see anything earlier than we could find any grain (> 15 meters).

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Are you in?

Sure!

 

[Arctic amateur]

Mirko,
Are you able to make colour film? I know you can't do it profitably in today's market, but let's say, hypothetically, that Fujifilm, Kodak and Agfa gave up and cancelled all colour film. Do you have the equipment and know-how needed to make colour emulsions?

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

...but let's say, hypothetically, that Fujifilm, Kodak and Agfa gave up and cancelled all colour film. Do you have the equipment and know-how needed to make colour emulsions?

Wow. No goofing around, that question gets right to the heart of the matter, doesn't it?

Ken

 

[angusparkengusparker]

Mirko

Thanks again for taking this interview for The Film Foundation. I'm currently busy designing something for the "captured on film" logo. I'd like to partner with Adox for this.

Plan:
- Set up a website capturedonfilm.com (or .net, whatever)
- Give the user the ability to download the logo in high resolution and maybe customized for their needs
- Adox logo on the website
- An album of lovely shots shot on film which can be contributed by users

Are you in?

Hope you are the one with the domain reserved because .com and .net are taken. However, .org makes more sense. A non-profit needs to reserve that....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[AgX]

The term Film Foundation is misleading anyway.

And legally utmost questionable.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Mirko,
Are you able to make colour film? I know you can't do it profitably in today's market, but let's say, hypothetically, that Fujifilm, Kodak and Agfa gave up and cancelled all colour film. Do you have the equipment and know-how needed to make colour emulsions?

Your answer is here: http://www.adox.de/Photo/?page_id=2101

 

[StoneNYC]

Your answer is here: http://www.adox.de/Photo/?page_id=2101

Hehe

 

[madgardener]

Well in the end it is always an economical and not a technical problem.
In this case it is a good example for the difficulties one faces today if he wants to manufacture a film product.
<snip>
At current market prices not even the first 8.000 EUR are possible to recover from sales. Unless you can be certain that people will buy your IR film at double or triple the price without impact on sales volumes (else you don´t win aynthing). I am not so optimistic about this though.

With the prices that I see on Ebay for HIE these days, double or triple the price for a high quality IR film may not be totally unthinkable. Those rolls are going for upwards of $30USD, per roll. If it were possible to limit manufacturing so as to not flood the market, I see no reason for $15-20USD per roll for such a specialized product. Especially as the EFKE IR film moves on out of the chain, which it'self is going for said $15-20USD per roll.

As a dream, I would like to see a color IR film, but the Economic reality says it will never happen since it was a true niche product even when it was available.

 

[AgX]

The problem in film-manufacture, especially when starting with a new product are high basic costs. These won't be affected by limiting production size.

Those people paying high prices for special films are not neccessarily the tip of an iceberg out of other interested people still silent.

 

[madgardener]

The problem in film-manufacture, especially when starting with a new product are high basic costs. These won't be affected by limiting production size.

Those people paying high prices for special films are not neccessarily the tip of an iceberg out of other interested people still silent.

That is a good point, and one I didn't consider, I was simply looking at it from the perspective that I am very unwilling to purchase IR film at $30USD a roll when it has been expired for such a long time. However I would be willing to send that kind of money for a true IR film that was fresh, and of high quality. In the past I bought the EFKE brand, and while I didn't use much (maybe 2-3 rolls a year), it was fun to play with. I just ordered a 2 roll pack of Rollei IR film from Freestyle, and am looking forward to trying it out and see what it can do.

Maybe its part of my sickness, but very recently I purchased 3 rolls of Fuji 1600 color film and paid $45USD.

 

[ME Super]

The Rollei IR400s is a nice IR film under the right circumstances. Use a 665nm or 720nm filter and you'll be fine. Sensitivity ends at 820nm, so don't even think of using a 900nm filter with it, it would be like shooting with the lens cap on.

This film also has the advantage that you can use it as an ordinary panchromatic B&W film without a filter.