Interview with Dave Bias of Film Ferrania (pdexposures Podcast)

Chazzy · Sep 24, 2014

A very interesting interview. Congratulations to the guys at pdexposures.

http://www.pdexposures.com/pdexposures-podcast-episode-39-film-ferrania-update-dave-bias/

pbromaghin · Sep 24, 2014

I'm 10 minutes into it and it is really informative.

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 24, 2014

Thanks! Yes, it is informative.

Ektagraphic · Sep 24, 2014

I don't have a ton of time at the moment, but even the first 5 minutes have been informative, so another vote for informative. Haha. Looking forward to this!

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 24, 2014

Interesting quick reference at 39:30 to a possible goal within the first year of production (whenever that can actually begin) to add a "400 ASA" and possibly an "800-3200 ASA" (?) "chrome film" to their initial ISO 100 E-6 offering...

No mention now by Dave of that ISO 100 C-41 film (Solaris) as being next in line.

Ken

Roger Cole · Sep 25, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Interesting quick reference at 39:30 to a possible goal within the first year of production (whenever that can actually begin) to add a "400 ASA" and possibly an "800-3200 ASA" (?) "chrome film" to their initial ISO 100 E-6 offering...

No mention now by Dave of that ISO 100 C-41 film (Solaris) as being next in line.

Ken

I would get REALLY excited about this IF the 100 film were a reality now, IF it proved a good film and IF it were commercially successful. As it is, I'll settle for "encouraged."

What are the odds a new Ferrania 400 film would be as good as Provia 400X though? It is/was just an amazingly good film for the speed. Well any film is better than no film. I imagine an 800-3200 slide film (what does that mean, anyway? An 800 film that can be pushed two stops? Or a film somewhere within that wide speed range) would be pretty grainy, and possibly, based on old fast slide films I remember, rather muted/pastel as well. That could prove a good thing for some images, not so much with others.

Peter Schrager · Sep 25, 2014

honestly I wish them luck in all their endeavours...of course I use B+W film so hopefully they will come to their senses and make some also!
best, peter

Truzi · Sep 25, 2014

That was the first "Podcast" I ever listened to. I've tried Podcasts before, but quickly grow bored. I found this one interesting and listened to the whole thing.

I like how they intend to do as much in-house as possible and not have to rely on others. I hope it works out soon.

Roger Cole · Sep 25, 2014

Peter Schrager said:
honestly I wish them luck in all their endeavours...of course I use B+W film so hopefully they will come to their senses and make some also!
best, peter

Um, why? With Ilford, Kodak still in the game, Foma and Adox all making multiple black and white films and Fuji still making one, albeit a remarkable one, I don't see the need or the room in the market. Color is what is in danger and where we really need a new player.

MattKing · Sep 25, 2014

I wish there was a transcript of the interview.

cmacd123 · Sep 25, 2014

Interesting interview, but does leave a few more questions in MY mind.

He seemed dismissive of "other companies" who buy in film components. Are they planning to manufacture their own film base in that tiny research building?

He talked about the "film ecosystem" and wanting to support that. I would wonder if perhaps they should be working with other firms to for example package someone else's film in the special sizes that they have equipment to produce Think Fomapan 400 127 packed for Foma by Ferrania as an example of what I am thinking of. Adox.DE has mentioned that they did contract the old Ferrania company to do some converting of film for them.

As far as the 800-3200 stock, Kodak and at ferrania/3M used to have an E6 PUSH film that worked something like Delta3200 or TMZ P3200 - a nominal 800 low contrast film that was intended to be push processed.

miha · Sep 25, 2014

Fuji too! Remember the MS 100/1000? http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/AF3-989E.pdf (Where did all the great films go...)

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 25, 2014

Are they planning to manufacture their own film base in that tiny research building?

Ferrania was self-sufficient in the past and they plan to go that way as much as they can.
BTW, did you watch the film showing the inside of that "tiny research building"?

I would wonder if perhaps they should be working with other firms to for example package someone else's film in the special sizes that they have equipment to produce

They have been talking with other companies as you can see on the Wittner site and on their factory report.
That has already been said for months. No news there.

Xmas · Sep 25, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Um, why? With Ilford, Kodak still in the game, Foma and Adox all making multiple black and white films and Fuji still making one, albeit a remarkable one, I don't see the need or the room in the market. Color is what is in danger and where we really need a new player.

Maybe (and you have omitted Orwo - they do two cine emulsions)

If they did a 220 mono I would read my debit card over the phone.

Colour is too difficult for me for

- labs &
- raw chemicals (I need to order from Germany)

Too much volume has gone already.

Kodak seem to be increasing prices...

Ektagraphic · Sep 25, 2014

I was confused that he first seemed to say that they wouldn't be able to make their own acetate, as the machines was not in their "LRF" building...but then seemed to allude to the fact that they will be making their own...

Roger Cole · Sep 25, 2014

Xmas said:
Maybe (and you have omitted Orwo - they do two cine emulsions)

If they did a 220 mono I would read my debit card over the phone.

Colour is too difficult for me for

- labs &
- raw chemicals (I need to order from Germany)

Too much volume has gone already.

Kodak seem to be increasing prices...

Well if they can cut and spool 220 they should work out a deal as me to ones above, maybe with Foma or Adox (or even Harman!) to spool existing BW in 220, if the market is there.

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk using 100% recycled electrons. Because I care.

ME Super · Sep 25, 2014

I have not yet listened all the way through the podcast yet, but did get around 40 minutes into it. One thing that impressed me is that they want to be able to synthesize the chemicals needed to make the film themselves. I'm also impressed that they want to serve an underserved market while being the right size to do so. There are several companies that make B&W film already, and at the moment there seems to be a good variety of B&W film, but very little in the way of color transparency film. The market is there but too small for Kodak and Fuji to both play. It may just be the perfect size for Film Ferrania. To be honest, its looking a lot like they are positioning themselves to be the color Ilford, which is not a bad business model at all, if you ask me.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 26, 2014

ME Super said:
To be honest, its looking a lot like they are positioning themselves to be the color Ilford, which is not a bad business model at all, if you ask me.

Funny you should say that, because after listening to the entire interview my first reaction was the same sense of possible light at the end of the tunnel that I felt when Harman formed from the ashes and declared they were absolutely NOT going to discontinue ANY of their current products.

It certainly wasn't a sure thing then, and it's not one now either. Harman already had a full range of products. Ferrania has to rebuild from near scratch. But the reaction was still there for me.

And honestly, it was Harman's strong promise that made me turn right instead of left, because at that point I was up in the air as to whether to dismantle my darkroom and sell while prices were still relatively good, or keep it and pour a fair amount of money back into it for improvements.

So yeah, what companies say publicly about their future, that pesky product guidance thing, really does matter. And that's why I listened so closely to this interview. These guys really sound like they mean business.

Did you hear the part about their engineers being consummate professionals who would never release something that didn't measure up to their expectations and wasn't the best they could do? Sounded to me like an intentionally direct reference to TIP and their quality challenges, and Ferrania's desire for everyone listening and waiting not to think that's how this effort will evolve.

Ken

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 26, 2014

Did you hear the part about their engineers being consummate professionals

The small team of engineers now working at Film Ferrania are some of the engineers that worked at Ferrania Technology. You can read about them in the Film Ferrania site.

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 26, 2014

Ektagraphic said:
I was confused that he first seemed to say that they wouldn't be able to make their own acetate, as the machines was not in their "LRF" building...but then seemed to allude to the fact that they will be making their own...

You're not the only one. I hope they will be able to do their own film base.

madgardener · Sep 26, 2014

This discussion wouldn't be complete without someone saying it, so I will.

Maybe they could talk to Kodak and get the formula for Kodachrome!

Ok, I've said it.

Seriously though, I am looking forward to seeing what they will have to offer in the future.

Mainecoonmaniac · Sep 26, 2014

Here's a link of a conversation with Ted Forbes.

http://theartofphotography.tv/

pbromaghin · Sep 26, 2014

Ektagraphic said:
I was confused that he first seemed to say that they wouldn't be able to make their own acetate, as the machines was not in their "LRF" building...but then seemed to allude to the fact that they will be making their own...

I took it that the machines, along with several others that they want, are in other buildings on the campus and that there is a pretty hard date by which they have to get them disassembled and removed before the wrecking ball settles the issue. He also mentioned that it is a touristy area and the remaining land is ripe for redevelopment.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 26, 2014

On the Film Ferrania website they do mention that the government agencies involved have been very accommodating regarding the timeframe for demolition, working with them to allow the preservation of as much equipment as they need before the wrecking balls start swinging.

Indeed, they claim that the Italian government really does want to see them succeed. If true, that's a huge potential plus. But I'd guess that still means they have to come up with the required money, even within a generous timeframe.

Generosity only goes so far...

Ken

Chazzy · Sep 26, 2014

Another interview with Dave Bias:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAPqpoq0TRM

Interview with Dave Bias of Film Ferrania (pdexposures Podcast)

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