Intermediate large format questions/photography misadventures

MTGseattle · Nov 10, 2023

Ok. I've got 2 large rubber bands I use simply to keep anything really unfortunate from happening.

I'm thinking of ditching DDX for a while as my developer. I've read quite a few posts regrading what I view as my likely alternatives based upon cost and current/future availability. I'm also thinking about ease too. I know that various formulas exist for assembling a developer from component chemicals. I have no interest in going down that path. I will source either powder or liquid concentrate.
I guess I would be fine with keeping a roll-film only developer on hand along with a sheet-film only, but I'm not sure that's necessary.
So,
Good ol d76 or ID11? Rodinol? Xtol? Again, I'm looking at shelf-life as probably my #1 criteria. availability is in consideration but who really knows? versatility (sheet and roll) and cost is maybe my last consideration when balanced against the current high cost of DDX.

I've heard of decade old Rodinal working just fine which is an appealing notion. Xtol is highly regarded.

Freestyle is out of stock on a lot of this right now, is this an indicator of what we're all in for regarding chemistry?

I'm not "married" to any single film stock right now. I'm currently out of Delta100 in 4x5, but I have tmax 100 and some other stocks. I have plenty of Delta 100 in 8x10. I don't want to start switching just because I'm having issues though. that doesn't really solve anything.

Rodinol seems to be out of stock right now at many places. WTF? Adonal or Rodinol I guess I'll check the adox site... Are they selling both?

abruzzi · Nov 10, 2023

PyrocatHD in glycol lasts a very long time, is pretty cheap. You'll need an easy way to withdrawl the small amounts (usually 5ml of each half for a 500ml mixture.) but otherwise its pretty easy. It is a little slow with most times in the 10-15 minute range, compared to HC110 which is lightning fast.

Pyrocat HD In Glycol

Developer Pyrocat-HD Glycol Film Sandy King Photography Chemicals

stores.photoformulary.com

The "50 liter A&B" is $36 and will fill 100 500ml tanks. so 36 cents.

Pioneer · Nov 10, 2023

MTGseattle said:
I continue to be my own worst enemy in some ways. I went out yesterday with my new to me Wista 45sp. I had forgotten how nice a revolving back is. I also brought the Minolta srt202 along that I was gifted. I made 2 4x5 exposures without much fuss, then pulled another film holder to see that the black side of the dark slides was showing (I work "silver"= ready, "Black"=exposed) I didn't remember exposing those frames, so I thought I simply replaced the dark slides backwards while loading. I also couldn't find notes to back up my assumptions. Thus ended the 4x5 work. The only real way to solve this is to run a frame through chemistry.

It has been 20 some years since I used any 35mm film. It was freeing in a way.
I hope 1 or 2 frames are equal to what I hoped for when exposing them. This forces a new conundrum upon me; the film was hp5+. I have 3 developers here that could work. DD-x, Tmax, Ilfosol3. Which one? Anyone have a 3-sided coin? There's a little red guy on my shoulder telling me to use Ilfosol3 at 75-80 degrees and double agitation. It would push things out into a realm I have only traveled in once before.

I went out yesterday to grab a quick couple of shots and realized that I had grabbed a film holder I had used just the day before. Fortunately I was enough on the ball to realize that both dark slides were black instead of white. Usually when I do something dumb like this I just end double exposing both frames.

I have even triple exposed. First exposure, reversed the dark slides like a good boy. Second round didn't catch on that I had already exposed the film once and did it a second time. Of course I reversed the dark slides when I was done so now they were white. You guessed it...I went out a 3rd time...

I love this sport.

Vaughn · Nov 11, 2023

Pioneer said:
...I love this sport.

Sharktooth · Nov 11, 2023

Hmmm, got me thinkin'

Golf ≈ Large Format Photography

Very expensive to play
Lots and lots of walking, but almost never running
There's a mix of long shots and short shots
Long stretches of tedium
You need to stay focused on every shot
Sand is the enemy
The goal is always the fewest shots, but each of the highest quality
Carbon fibre shafts are the current trend
The wealthiest often employ an assistant
You're always aiming for a very small hole
Requires carrying a large heavy bag full of equipment
Everyone looks to The Masters

Afterwards, we kid ourselves that it was "fun"

btaylor · Nov 11, 2023

In terms of a long lasting film developer I am a big fan of Freestyle’s L110, an HC110 clone. I’ve been working on the same bottle for about 7 years and it still worked great the last time I used it. I always keep it with no air exposure, either squeezing the bottle or using an airtight bag. I don’t like short developing times so I use dilution H, 1:63, about 13 minutes. Super economical and it’s always ready to go. Given my spot in life my darkroom and shooting time has been very sporadic.

MTGseattle · Nov 11, 2023

I really want to give Rodinol/Adinol a try. I'll keep watch over the usual suppliers for a stock refresh. I picked up (2) 1 liter kits of ID11 today. I also grudgingly dropped my Mamiya 6mf bodies off for a repair estimate. I then stumbled upon a bundle of Technika lens boards for $15 each. Hard to pass at that price. 1 pilot hole only true Linhof board, one Wista copal zero and 1 Wista copal 1

Pioneer · Nov 11, 2023

MTGseattle said:
I really want to give Rodinol/Adinol a try. I'll keep watch over the usual suppliers for a stock refresh. I picked up (2) 1 liter kits of ID11 today. I also grudgingly dropped my Mamiya 6mf bodies off for a repair estimate. I then stumbled upon a bundle of Technika lens boards for $15 each. Hard to pass at that price. 1 pilot hole only true Linhof board, one Wista copal zero and 1 Wista copal 1

I mix my own Parodinal based on the recipe from Donald Quall. It never lasts long enough in my house for me to really test the longevity. Same thing happens with my D-23. By mixing my own I always have fresh developer available. I depend heavily on both of these developers and very rarely use anything else. Adotech for my Adox CMS 20 may be one of the only exceptions.

MTGseattle · Nov 12, 2023

Is anyone using any of the Stouffer products? I feel like they could be useful to me. Possibly the RZ9 zone scale and maybe the TP4521.

Rod Klukas · Nov 16, 2023

MTGseattle said:
I'm desperately trying to work through the "issues" that's for sure. I cooked the bejeezus out of one of my frames from last week. Over exposed and over developed. There are details in both of my "placed" zones, but it's going to be a bugger to print.

I broke my ground glass for the Tomiyama 170 the other night. I was messing around trying to make a small focus scale for it. I stepped away for a few minutes, came back and messed with the tripod and the glass dropped right off. The good news is that I did have the pieces on hand to get things sorted with a 120mm f6.8 angulon on that camera. I also found a "vintage" cable release for the Tomiyama that fits like it was made for it. It's a cloth wrapped Minette release.

I purchased a Wista 45 sp. I went through the trouble of building my own reduction back just to buy another 4x5. g.a.s strikes again. It's not quite as refined as a Linhof Technica, but well worth the price I paid.
My goal is to have a "Kit" I can grab and take with me each day. a 4x5 kit, the Tomiyama, and the 8x10 kit. My meter and a filter or 2 should be the only things that carry over.

I may do a round of down and dirty film testing this weekend. I'm hoping I can get things acceptible in 4-6 frames of 4x5. (for 1 developer).

Do you ever use Farmers Reducer or the like? You could reduce the density of your dense neg that way.

With Kodak messed up on Chemistry, you may need to make it yourself.

Rod

Rod Klukas · Nov 16, 2023

Pioneer said:
I mix my own Parodinal based on the recipe from Donald Quall. It never lasts long enough in my house for me to really test the longevity. Same thing happens with my D-23. By mixing my own I always have fresh developer available. I depend heavily on both of these developers and very rarely use anything else. Adotech for my Adox CMS 20 may be one of the only exceptions.

I really liked D23 with a batch of DK25 for replenisher. My last batch of 23 lasted 12 years.

I assume you keep it and let the silver build up.

Rod

Rod Klukas · Nov 16, 2023

More on last reply-- I used the D23 for some 2.5 hour development on Super XX and TriX, to get me a plus 4 expansion.

Rod

Rod Klukas · Nov 16, 2023

Ian C said:
Regarding post #95

I’ve long used T-Max Developer for nearly all films: 35 mm, 120, 4” x 5”, 8” x 10”. I’m aware of Kodak’s warning against developing T-Max sheet films in T-Max Developer. The warning came early after the introduction of T-Max Developer. I’m not certain, but I think that at some point Kodak modified the T-Max emulsion. Possibly this accounts for my failure to encounter dichroic fog. I use T-Max 100 film almost exclusively. I have never encountered any problem resembling “dichroic fog” in my T-Max sheet films (or any other films, sheets or rolls) developed in T-Max Developer. My black-and-white sheet films are developed in Paterson trays.

It's possible to compensate for a 1/4-stop difference between the metered exposure time and the time limits of a shutter with older time scales, though unless you’re shooting color transparency film, it’s unnecessary for such a small difference.

The intended time for a metered 1/125 second exposure is 1/128 seconds. The difference from 1/128 second to 1/100 second is 0.36 stops. So, if you meter reading is, say, 1/125 @ f/16 and you were forced to use a marked time of 1/100 second, in principle, you’d get a 0.36-stop, or about a 1/3rd-stop overexposure at 1/100 second shutter time.

To compensate, set the aperture index about 1/3rd of the distance from f/16 towards f/22 to reduce the exposure by about 1/3 stop. With negative film, I wouldn’t bother with such a small correction. For this to be meaningful, the shutter would have to be quite accurate, which is questionable for an old gear-train-escapement shutter.

You might consider a Cesco flat tray for most consisten results for your developer. OPccasionally the developer can not be perfectly uniform and some settles into the grooves in the bottom, resulting in streaks on the negs.

Rod

btaylor · Nov 16, 2023

MTGseattle said:
Is anyone using any of the Stouffer products? I feel like they could be useful to me. Possibly the RZ9 zone scale and maybe the TP4521.

I find tools like this very useful for calibrating my workflow. It’s very easy to see if you’re in or out of spec.

btaylor · Nov 16, 2023

Rod Klukas said:
I really liked D23 with a batch of DK25 for replenisher. My last batch of 23 lasted 12 years.

I assume you keep it and let the silver build up.

Rod

This I want to try! Bought the materials and a scale. You must like it if you’ve gone 12 years. I used to use T-max RS and liked it, but it was discontinued as you know.

Rod Klukas · Nov 16, 2023

Btaylor,

You should find a 1 Gal Amber glass jug for both D23 and DK25. Mix the D23 first and place in the amber jug and cap. With a sharper or similar marker, mark the top surface of the chemistry.

Now mix the DK 25R and pour into its bottle and cap. I would keep jugs both in a cupboard as well.

Now develop your film in straight D23 developer. After developing, pour developer back into the original bottle and check the level against the line you had marked. If below the line, add DK25 to bring level up to line on jug.

Just keep on like that. later you will note some sludge in the bottom,(Silver). Don't worry, that is normal.

For best results intermitant agitation in trays is best with this developer.

Also the older thicker emulsions are best, Tri-X, Hp5, Fp4, are all good choices. Perhaps some of the other European stuff like ORWO, or Foma may be good choices.

email if you have more questions.

Rod

Pioneer · Nov 16, 2023

Rod Klukas said:
Btaylor,

You should find a 1 Gal Amber glass jug for both D23 and DK25. Mix the D23 first and place in the amber jug and cap. With a sharper or similar marker, mark the top surface of the chemistry.

Now mix the DK 25R and pour into its bottle and cap. I would keep jugs both in a cupboard as well.

Now develop your film in straight D23 developer. After developing, pour developer back into the original bottle and check the level against the line you had marked. If below the line, add DK25 to bring level up to line on jug.

Just keep on like that. later you will note some sludge in the bottom,(Silver). Don't worry, that is normal.

For best results intermitant agitation in trays is best with this developer.

Also the older thicker emulsions are best, Tri-X, Hp5, Fp4, are all good choices. Perhaps some of the other European stuff like ORWO, or Foma may be good choices.

email if you have more questions.

Rod

The Fomapan films work very well with this. Have not tried it with Orwo film.

EDIT - BTW Foma 2x3 film loves this.

MTGseattle · Nov 17, 2023

@Rod Klukas this intrigues me. Can you point me to some further reading? Also, is the D23 appropriate for both roll and sheet? My sheet film processing is with the Stearman press sp810, and likely an sp445. Roll is Patterson for 120 and Small stainless for 35mm. I just scored some Estar base Tri-x and Super-xx in 4x5. I only had 4 good 4x5 film holders for some reason so I have a bundle of those en route. Four is not enough.

I'm also intrigued by what many people say regarding the pyro developers. There seem to be quite a few formulas. Is there a decent data source for the versions and their respective appropriateness? The Gordon Hutchings "book of Pyro?"

MTGseattle · Nov 24, 2023

The tripod setup I arrived at doesn't quite work. The Linhof 1370M on the Gitzo systematic tripod legs is the first hiccup in the system. The low-profile nature and the long rods make for interference. I think a simple riser plate might negate this issue. I know Gitzo has a leveling base plate that looks like it would give me back maybe 1-1/4" of height. If I had a lathe I could turn an extension plate out of almost anything.
The Manfrotto base plate and qr plate pair I got seem well made and strong enough, but the lever for locking things rotates on the vertical axis, and I keep running out of room under the base plate of my field cameras. A poorly secured camera of any type is sure to cause problems.

Matt Marash seems to get along really well with the Novoflex Q-base system. He throws his Tachihara over his shoulder often.

I like the look of the Luland Reis knockoff that adds a qr plate, but $400? I just spent some ridiculous coin on what I hope will be a lifetime camera for me, so more spending on accessory gear shouldn't happen right now.

This is the photography minutia I hate. One can have a camera system all sorted but still have silly issues that make being in the field a pain in the butt.

MTGseattle · Dec 12, 2023

Well, thanks to @Philippe-Georges I have a Linhof quick-fix2 en route that should solve my tripod dilemma.

In other news, I saw an opportunity to grab a used K.B Canham 8x10 field camera so I jumped at the opportunity. The camera suffered shipping damage so it's back in Keith's hands getting repaired. This should be a "lifetime" camera for me. I'm excited to get it out into the field.

The seller kicked me some decent cash back as a refund for the shipping damage and I've sold some non-photography gear which when combined has mostly offset the cost of the Canham.
I'm now in that mental state of deciding exactly which gear to keep and/or which formats to stick with. 8x10 and 4x5 are in the keep column for sure.

The 6x17 will likely go away as I need a 5x7 enlarger for those negatives, and the hybrid workflow still bothers the crap out of me.

6x12??? It will take mounting the back on my Wista for that format which isn't a huge deal. I'll likely keep the 6x12 back for a while.

The Mamiya 6mf?? I have 2 bodies currently being made into 1 nice working camera. After the expense and hassle of that do I ditch it? I really enjoy that camera and its lenses plus with a fully working camera, I can collapse the thing again and throw it in with my sheet film pack as a "backup" camera. Or sell it to help fund a Fujinon A 360mm ?

Do all of you multi-format people go through this or do most of you budget better and use a given format longer before adding/switching?

Vaughan Bromfield · Dec 12, 2023

MTGseattle said:
Do all of you multi-format people go through this or do most of you budget better and use a given format longer before adding/switching?

I've always been attracted to large format for the quality and its contemplative work flow, I use b+w exclusively and do my own processing. I also enjoy the exact opposite of large format which is light, portable and fast to use, for which 35mm b+w and full-frame digital meet my needs. I use Canon EOS film and digital cameras so lenses are interchangeable. I have owned and used but never really found a place for medium format.

I like using 8x10 occasionally as a reminder of how good the smaller large formats are: 4x5, but 5x7 is not a lot more effort.

If I needed to only have two camera systems I'd settle on 35mm and 5x7.

MTGseattle · Dec 12, 2023

There are definitely times when I want to be a little more "free" when photographing, so I will keep something besides the sheet film equipment.

AnselMortensen · Dec 13, 2023

Wait, you haven't tried Whole Plate (6.5" x 8.5") yet!

Beautiful format, great aspect ratio, and makes nice contact prints on 8x10 paper... but kind of an orphan when it comes to film, film holders, processing, & processing equipment.

MTGseattle · Dec 15, 2023

Ha ha!

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 15, 2023

I like mixing up my own developers. There are only a couple of commercial developers I use. XTOL and recently, Flic Film Black/White & Green. XTOL is a top shelf developer in my opinion, with excellent keeping qualities once mixed up. I usually use it 1+1, but have been replenishing it for the past few years. Delta 100 in XTOL 1+1 is very nice. I'm not sure of the future of XTOL, though...
I recently started playing around with Flic Film's Black/White & Green developer. It's quite good and easy to mix up at its 1+49 ratio. It's basically Gainer's PC-TEA.
Developers I like mixing from scratch are Pyrocat-HD, 510-Pyro, D-23, PC-TEA, FX-55. Pyrocat mixed up in glycol last forever. 510-Pyro is mixed with TEA, and also lasts forever (I just developed a 4x5 sheet in a 1/3rd full bottle that I mixed up 16 months ago, with perfect results.

Intermediate large format questions/photography misadventures

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