Inherited paper, what have I got here?

[Ai Print]

Hi everyone,
A good friend of mine who was a prolific National Geographic photographer pre-2000's and his fine art photographer wife have downsized from their home of 30 years and have actually bought a place not far from me. They are both in their mid to late 80's and did the commensurate downsizing of possessions.

So I inherited quite a bit of enlarging papers stored in a climate controlled space, I suspect much of it is over 20 years old at this point. Most of the sizes are 8x10, 11x14, 16x20 and some 20x24 and some technical films like Kodak Matrix. This is a lot of paper, over 200 packs and boxes, some unopened, some opened, almost all of it graded, only a handful of multi-grade and by far most of it Agfa.

I just had foot surgery that will take me out of the darkroom game for at least two months so I can't say I will be able to experiment any time soon.

Right off I can see using this almost in a Lomo sense, I get what I get and don't use it for anything in where I would expect consistency or even results of any kind. But given the photos I have attached below, what are my prospects of using it for any kind of meaningful image based on the experience of those who have used very outdated paper?

 

[Lachlan Young]

For lith, some of that stuff is the gold standard (the blue box Seagull) - and the Agfa paper isn't bad either. The Ilford paper is likely pretty good too for that. Lith processing is pretty fog resistant even with aged paper - I've used expired Agfa paper that produces horribly grey whites in regular dev, but cleans up just fine in lith.

Insignia is the same as Record Rapid as far as I know.

Sadly the Pan-Matrix is probably long dead & badly fogged if it hasn't been very carefully stored (it's a highly sensitive, unhardened panchromatic emulsion).

 

[Kino]

Buy some anti-fog : http://stores.photoformulary.com/benzotriazole/

Every packet will probably be different; just got to test it. The really bad stuff can be used for shadowgrams...

 

[bdial]

to test, take a sheet, cut in half, develop and fix one using your normal timing for development, and just fix the other. Wash and dry them, then compare. Any tone in the developed one will be fog.

I’ve not had good luck with old Agfa “speed” or “rapid “ papers. The Brovira BH-111 might well be ok, not sure on the others.

 

[MattKing]

Look up darkrooms modified for wheelchair users!
Sorry to hear about your surgery.
The real problem with this sort of stuff is that you might encounter papers that you really love.

 

[Ai Print]

Thanks everyone, great points and ideas.

As far as the surgery, it was long needed. I have had a bone spur becoming problematic over the past few years, this year it got bad enough to where there were times I could hardly walk. My darkroom is three floors down so I'll just see it through and be good to go for ski season and beyond.

It's a crap ton of paper, I'm sure I will make good use of it somehow.

 

[Buzz-01]

As always, YMMV, but just a couple of weeks ago I printed on some Agfa Brovira paper which has been stored terribly for the last 35 years. Contrast was quite low, but still got something fairly decent from it.
Just give it a try when you're recovered!

 

[relistan]

I've used some very old Agfa Brovira and Kodak papers successfully though there was some fog. Give it a try... You might get good results.

For years I've intended to try to replicate some of rlibersky's results with Defender 58D. You might take a look at this thread

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/old-paper-again.36216/

 

[eatfrog]

portriga-rapid is my favourite paper so far for lith. old papers like this are worth quite a lot of money nowadays.

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

You have a gold mine for Lith printing.
Graded blue Seagull is fantastic. Followed by Portriga and Brovira which are also terrific in Lith.
Agfa Insigna is very tricky and unfortunately doesn't behave like Record Rapid.
Never tried Ilforbrom but they are supposed to Lith very well.
All in all you got a treasure
Enjoy !

 

[Dali]

I agree with Guillaume, it is a Lith paradise!

 

[koraks]

Yup, those are some very nice papers. And not only for lith! All of the Agfa fiber based paper I've tried so far has turned out to work great. The RC paper is usually junk.

 

[Lachlan Young]

The RC paper is usually junk.

I've had pretty good results with some older Agfa MCP 310 - it may well be dependent on the specific coating package at a specific plant - there seems to have been some specific coating addenda that prevents lith happening (and I'm pretty sure it's not the heavy metal salts that makes paper 'lith').

Agfa Insigna is very tricky and unfortunately doesn't behave like Record Rapid.

Interesting - all the material evidence I've seen suggested they were at least very close, if not identical - at least with the last generation of RR.

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

I've had pretty good results with some older Agfa MCP 310 - it may well be dependent on the specific coating package at a specific plant - there seems to have been some specific coating addenda that prevents lith happening (and I'm pretty sure it's not the heavy metal salts that makes paper 'lith').
Interesting - all the material evidence I've seen suggested they were at least very close, if not identical - at least with the last generation of RR.

I had the same belief than you until I ran off of RR and followed with Insignia. Very strange, image came way too fast and a fog, like a dichroic fog, killed the print.
I tried a few times with different boxes and got same issue. Last generation of RR isn't the best for Lith when compared with older ones but you can still get beautiful gritty prints.

 

[Ai Print]

Wow, lots of good replies, thanks. Ok, so I am going to do a search on this but in the meantime, I have to confess, I have never done lith printing but given the look, it could really work well as a body of work that makes good use of the paper.

Typically what types of negatives in terms of contrast work best?

 

[koraks]

https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Lith/lith.html
Warning: you may get trapped in a deep but colorful hole.

 

[Ai Print]

https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Lith/lith.html
Warning: you may get trapped in a deep but colorful hole.

I just became the in house photographer / photo director for a great food and farming magazine. Our opening essay for this first issue is portraits of storage crops, regally lit, each portrait shot in medium or large format film and the “other” zeros and ones stuff to meet deadline. The purpose of the film images are fine art prints for fund raising and of course, to further my success in that regard.

I can see this type of printing being perfect for that and if I use it up in the next 1-2 years for this specific genre, it could be really special.

 

[koraks]

Yes, it may work well. But in your application, I suspect that consistency will be important, and that is one of the major challenges with lith. It's fairly easy to make unique lith prints, but a highly consistent series, especially spanning a longer period of time, is quite another thing.

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Put it this way. Lith is a drug and addiction comes very quickly.
Koraks is right with consistency. As soon as you forget about that and play with many different looks you are fine.
Or you stack up different papers. And each one (with his specific look) is dedicated to a specific series.
This is why lith printers are always looking for paper.... Everyday.

 

[Ai Print]

I suppose I will just have to get my feet wet with it and see how it goes. It’s one thing to look at the work of others, it’s another to take a negative that one is familiar with and see what the effects are.

 

[Frank53]

Yup, those are some very nice papers. And not only for lith! All of the Agfa fiber based paper I've tried so far has turned out to work great. The RC paper is usually junk.

I experienced just the opposite. The rc paper I have is still perfect and the fibre is very fogged.

Regards,
Frank