inherited Canon EOS 3000N - new batteries detected as exhausted? :(

Hi,

I hope someone can offer some advice. I've searched the forums and couldn't find anything on this topic.

My father-in-law recently passed away, and I have inherited his old 35mm camera and home developing equipment.
I've used digital cameras for many years, but I've only dabbled in 35mm very briefly before, but I'm keen to give it a real go.

The main camera he left is a Canon EOS 3000N.
I had a couple of CR123 batteries that were old (about 10 years maybe) but had never been used.
I put them in it, and it powered up.
The LCD display on top came on, and I could see the battery icon was "full", and it showed the three "exposure points" indicator.
When I half-pressed the shutter, I could hear and see through the viewfinder that the autofocus was kicking in.
Seemed good to go

I bought a couple of rolls of Kentmere Pan 400 24 exp to try it out.
I got the manual online, and checked how to put the film in correctly, and followed those instructions.

This camera is one that feeds the whole film out on to the take-up spool, and then as you take shots it rolls it back up into the canister to protect exposed frames from accidental back opening indicents.
It was feeding the film out, got up to "27" on the frame counter, then stopped, and the battery icon changed to the empty "flashing" icon, indicating exhausted batteries.
Ok, maybe those old (albeit unused) batteries were past their best after all...

I went and bought brand new duracell batteries from the supermarket and put them in, but it does the same thing.
When I close the battery compartment lid, the wind-on motor kicks in for a second or two, then "empty battery" icon flashes for a second or two, then goes to a solid (not flashing) "empty" status.
If I half press the shutter, the wind-on motor kicks in for a second or so again, but the battery icon stays the same, and nothing else appears on the LCD.

My other thought was that it might have had something to do with it being a 24 exposure film? The fact that the counter went up to 27 might indicate something?

I'm hoping this is something fixable (by myself preferably), as this camera has sentimental value, even if it doesn't command a high price on the second hand market...

Thanks all,

Niall.

The blinking battery on a Canon means there is a problem with the camera. It should say that in the manual. It could be a problem with the film. Maybe it was pulled out of the cassette or never caught and advanced when you loaded it. It could be a problem with the contacts between the camera and the lens. It doesn't have anything to do with the battery though unless you have a dead battery which you don't.

fortyblinks said:

Hi,

I hope someone can offer some advice. I've searched the forums and couldn't find anything on this topic.

I had a couple of CR123 batteries ...I put them in it, and it powered up.
The LCD display on top came on, and I could see the battery icon was "full", and it showed the three "exposure points" indicator.
When I half-pressed the shutter, I could hear and see through the viewfinder that the autofocus was kicking in.
Seemed good to go
...
It was feeding the film out, got up to "27" on the frame counter, then stopped, and the battery icon changed to the empty "flashing" icon, indicating exhausted batteries.
Ok, maybe those old (albeit unused) batteries were past their best after all...
...
I went and bought brand new duracell batteries from the supermarket and put them in, but it does the same thing.

Click to expand...

I've got a very similar camera (known in the USA as the Canon Rebel G) and aside from the battery problem, what you describe sounds like normal behavior.

How long did you have the new batteries in the camera before they died, and did they become warm to the touch? Because while excessive current draw can be a symptom of faulty camera electronics, any fault big enough to kill a fresh set of CR123s in a hurry is also likely to to generate heat quite a bit of heat, and probably blow an internal fuse within the camera. But even with camera's dial set to "L", there's always a small current draw as some of the electronics including the LCD remain energized. A couple of weeks left in that state shouldn't make much difference to the state of your batteries, but a few months will.

I've found that motor-drive cameras from this era are very unreliable, in fact very few have worked correctly. The problem usually seems to be with internal sensors concerned with wind-on and rewind.
Don't give up on film, buy a manual camera

Brian P

The counter showing 27 is normal. Films are a little bit longer than what is indicated on the box to make up for loading discrepancies. An auto load camera wastes less film in the loading process than a mechanical one where you have the back open while winding the first shot to make sure it takes up correctly on the spool.

I have never had reliability issues with these types of SLRs - every one I've had has worked fine. Not to say that yours does though.
Have you tried to operate the camera without film in it?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I only had the batteries in the camera for a few minutes, and they weren't warm when I removed them.
The battery indicator also goes back to showing "full" under specific circumstances, as described below...

It does seem to be more related to the film and the winding process than the batteries.
As a test, I put the camera under a heavy quilt, to make sure no light could get to it, and popped open the back to see if I could feel whether the film was fed out and/or connected to the take-up spool properly.
It was hard to tell, as it seemed to go under and over a couple of bits...
I couldn't determine anything concrete, so closed the back and brought the camera back out into the light.
At which point, I noticed that the LCD screen looked "normal" again...

However, something's still not right.
The camera will let me trigger the shutter, but the exposure counter stays at 27, even after trying a few times.
And after each time, the LCD goes back to the "empty battery" condition.
If I pop open the back and close it (without doing anything else), it goes back to "looks like it's working" again >_<

I also noticed that the camera appears to be stuck in "auto" mode.
When I put the "mode wheel" to anything that allows manual changing of shutter speed or aperture (P, Tv, Av, M), the "scroll wheel" has no effect - the shutter speed and aperture don't change.
However, I know the "scroll wheel" works physically, as when I'm changing something like the "red-eye" feature, or the "beep" feature, it works fine.

I've also tried to perform a "mid-roll rewind", but it just doesn't do anything.

I'm loathe to have to just open it up in the light to try to figure it out, and lose that roll of film, but at the end of the day it's only a few quid and wouldn't be the end of the world.

Huss said:

The counter showing 27 is normal. Films are a little bit longer than what is indicated on the box to make up for loading discrepancies. An auto load camera wastes less film in the loading process than a mechanical one where you have the back open while winding the first shot to make sure it takes up correctly on the spool.

I have never had reliability issues with these types of SLRs - every one I've had has worked fine. Not to say that yours does though.
Have you tried to operate the camera without film in it?

Click to expand...

Hi,

thanks for the info re: the 27 exposures - I figured it might be something like that, but wasn't sure, and don't want to make too many assumptions >_<
yeah, I tried the camera without film in it first, and other than not showing an exposure count, it seemed to work fine - i could release the shutter and everything, and the LCD stayed operational.

And I've just realised something else - the LCD display is still "on", even when I set the "Mode wheel" to "off"

I had assumed that was normal, so you could still see the exposures left etc, but just checked a couple of youtube videos, and it looks like the LCD should go off completely when it's set to "off".

Clean the battery contacts - the motor will draw a lot of current when it gets to the end of the film in the cassette. Dirty contacts will cause the camera's logic to think the batteries have suddenly gone empty. The problem can also be corroded internal wiring. The LCD not turning off may or may not be indicative of anything - can you fire the camera with the camera 'off' and the LCD 'on'?

fortyblinks said:

I also noticed that the camera appears to be stuck in "auto" mode.
When I put the "mode wheel" to anything that allows manual changing of shutter speed or aperture (P, Tv, Av, M), the "scroll wheel" has no effect - the shutter speed and aperture don't change.
However, I know the "scroll wheel" works physically, as when I'm changing something like the "red-eye" feature, or the "beep" feature, it works fine.

Click to expand...

OK it sounds like an electronics problem. Is there any possibility that someone previously removed the top cover of the camera and reassembled it incorrectly? I haven't disassembled my own Rebel G to see whether it's possible, but with other cameras, such switches as the rotary mode switch can definitely be reassembled out of correct sequence. Anything more than that is likely beyond the scope of typical home DIY unless you are comfortable working around small SMD circuits.

Guys, thank you all so much - I have managed to get the camera working (I'm pretty sure - I've put another film in, and it seems to be working properly this time - will need to finish and develop the roll to be sure though )

Patrick Robert James said:

It could be a problem with the film. Maybe it was pulled out of the cassette or never caught and advanced when you loaded it.

Click to expand...

First reply to my original post, and by jove you hit (one of the) nail(s) on the head!

I put the camera back in the "dark bag", and had a better feel around, and realised that the film was no longer connected to the canister - it had pulled right out!
So that explains why the exposure counter wasn't decreasing, and probably the weird winding on behaviour too.
Just bad luck I guess that it happened on my first roll. Hopefully not a bad omen for my photographic future...

That did still leave the weird issue of mode changing not working, but I got that sorted too

4season said:

OK it sounds like an electronics problem. Is there any possibility that someone previously removed the top cover of the camera and reassembled it incorrectly? I haven't disassembled my own Rebel G to see whether it's possible, but with other cameras, such switches as the rotary mode switch can definitely be reassembled out of correct sequence. Anything more than that is likely beyond the scope of typical home DIY unless you are comfortable working around small SMD circuits.

Click to expand...

Thank you for putting me on that track - I've now managed to sort it

I was 100% sure the camera hadn't been disassembled and reassembled - my father-in-law was handy at some things (joinery mainly), but tinkering with technology was most definitely out of his comfort zone. However, upon closer inspection I noticed that the neck strap lug at the side where the mode dial is happens to be bent. I suspect the camera has been dropped at some point, so I took it as a possibility that something had been knocked out of position.

So I looked up "Canon EOS Rebel" on ifixit, and found this procedure for removing the top plate of the the "Rebel G", which does indeed seem to be very similar to the GII/3000N:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Canon+EOS+Rebel+G+Top+Panel+Replacement/8713

Once I got the top plate off, I could see that the little bracket on the underneath of the mode dial wasn't lined up with the little protrusion on the mechanism that sits below it. So the command dial on the top was turning, and clicking nice and firmly to each detent, but it just wasn't connected to anything underneath

For the sake of anyone who might happen to come along behind me with a similar problem, here's a few pics:



So I lined up the two parts, put the top panel back on, and voila! The mode dial now works!!!

I'm so chuffed that the camera is now working, and so will my partner be in the morning when I tell her that I'll be able to use her Dad's old camera.
Thanks again guys - all the help was much appreciated.

I'll have to stick around this forum, and try to give back somewhat, if and when I can

fortyblinks said:

I'll have to stick around this forum, and try to give back somewhat, if and when I can

Click to expand...

Welcome.
By posting this thread, you already have.

Nicholas Lindan said:

Clean the battery contacts - the motor will draw a lot of current when it gets to the end of the film in the cassette. Dirty contacts will cause the camera's logic to think the batteries have suddenly gone empty.

Click to expand...

Yes, basically my thought too. But this camera runs on Lithium battery. I have not yet seen a Lithiun battery leaking nor corroded battery contacts in such camera.

Niall, fine that you closely inspected the camera and found that bent lug. The advantage of these "modern" cameras is that only a few screws are between you and a look under the top plate. With many, cameras we discuss here. there are glued on decorative plates to be taken off, weird retaining screws to be somehow loosened to just have such glance, other cameras even necessitate getting off the leatherette.

Good to see you've got it back to work again!
Just FYI, with my EOS 100, the battery symbol will blink when the 2CR5 cell is empty. So that blinking symbol doesn't have to be a camera defect per se as someone mentioned above.
The EOS 100 manual states that you should be able to run through about 100 rolls of film in normal temperatures and when not using the internal flash, but mine was empty after 10 rolls (11 months since I put in the fresh battery).
At first I didn't understand why, but then it hit me... I've been using my modern EF lenses with Image Stabilization...
And apparently IS uses a lot of power!

Enjoy your camera and make some great pictures with it!

Congratulations on solving the problem. A similar thing happened with the first roll of film in my F5: it pulled out of the cassette at the end and wound around the takeup spool. The film counter did not change nor would the auto rewind engage. I was puzzled and concerned the new to me F5 was broken, until I checked everything in a dark bag. It was a bulk-loaded roll I did not secure well enough in the cassette. No problems with the second roll!

fortyblinks said:

Thank you for putting me on that track - I've now managed to sort it

Click to expand...

That's wonderful, congratulations on a successful repair!

Well done fixing it!!

Glad it all worked out!