Infrared Film Use

[rtuttle]

I have a question for anyone here who might have some insight on this. I'm interested in taking pictures inside using infrared film using only some available light. Now the question, do I need to use the red filter (#25a I believe) or because of the lack of light involved would it be best to leave it off? Also for a couple of lamps set inside (60 watt or so) what am I looking at in terms of exposure and I know you can't be exact. And how about developing? I normally use Rodinal but would use something else if I have too.

Next what about that Rollei near infrared film? Has anybody used it and is it worth trying? And what would you develop that with?

 

[NikoSperi]

No expert but maybe can shed some light on this in an inept manner... pun intended. An infrared film is nothing other than a film sensitive to the wavelengths of light that extend beyond the visible spectrum. In the case of ultraviolet light, that would be wavelengths shorter than violet. In the case of infrared, that means wavelengths longer than red. Violet on the short end, and red on the long end are the confines of what human vision can perceive.

A film on the other hand, CAN "see" wavelengths outside what your eyes can, and record them on the silver halide. To make a long story short, the infrared film can react to wavelengths beyond the humanly visible as well as to the ones you normally can see. If you wan't to record ONLY the infrared portion of the spectrum, you need on the one hand a film sensitive to it, and on the other hand a filter to block the rest of the spectrum: the IR filter does just that by letting only the long IR wavelengths through.

All this to say however, that you can use the IR film to record all the visible and the IR portion as well, and thus forgo the IR filter. A couple of considerations to bear in mind: IR wavelengths are longer than visible wavelengths. That means that focus at IR lengths does not take place at the same lens extension as visible wavelengths. If you shoot without an IR filter and thus chose to record all visible and IR spectra, you would need to chose which spectrum to focus on: IR or visible.

For EI and developing, it's very hit and miss. Of my sketchy memory I used to expose Kodak KIE at 200 EI without a filter... for development I don't recall but I thinks digital truth actually has times on it, or I could get off my ass and look through my negs to find times... FWIW, I like the result of HIE without a filter alot - and I'd recommend trying portraits.

 

[JLP]

Try to do a forum search on Rollei or Infrared and you should get most questions answered.
One thing though, you will not get any infrared effect using the rollei B&W film indoors. Best effect is on sunny days outside.
The #25 red will not give you much infrared effect either at least on the Rollei. You would need a more specific filter such as the R72 or equivalent.
With the R72 filter actual speed is about 6 iso. Try checking the Massive Dev Chart for development times, i don't have my data with me.

 

[Mike Richards]

Patricia,

Firstly, I assume you are talking about "near infrared," or just barely out of the visual range, which is what IR films can detect. If you want to capture images from hot objects that emit heat, that is "far infrared" for lack of a better term. No normal IR films work in that region.

Infrared B&W film can produce a stunning and unusual effect in sunlit scenes, due mainly to the IR emitted by foilage. You can see this effect on images in the smugmug infrared forum:

http://www.smugmug.com/community/Infrared

I have some images posted there, e.g.:

http://richam.smugmug.com/gallery/608733#25710137

As JLP indicates, IR has no particular visual advantage indoors, so I assume you want to use infrared as a means of avoiding bright lights and be able to take candid photos with very subdued light. Rollei and other films, such as the Maco 820c, could possibly be used for this purpose. The latter was originally developed for traffic cameras. The camera was employed without a filter, but at night the flash was IR filtered to avoid blinding motorists. But for very subdued available light, a fast B&W film would work better.

If you provide more specific information on what you want to achieve, perhaps we could provide more useful information.

 

[Robert Hall]

I would try an orange #12 for an indoor filter with HIE. I would try candle light or incandescent light.

As for the Rollei, it would have some dependance on your subject matter. It is a very very slow film. I have seen speeds as slow as .75 iso, but I use PMK and it looses a little speed as well.

 

[Terence]

This thread:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

refers to this post on photo.net:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Ghos

and covers a lot of this territory.

All that said, infrared indoors can be done with an infrared flashbulbs, which can occasionally be found on eBay (search for 5R bulbs), or a flash with an IR filter over it. Most flashes put out a decent amount of IR, but you'll have to experiment as they all put out different amounts of different wavelengths.

 

[nworth]

Infrared film is sensitive to blue light as well as infrared (and red). The reason you use the dark red filter is to eliminate the blue sensitivity, so you will get that "infrared look" in the picture. Whether you need it in your situation depends on the setup and how you want the pictures to look. If you are using infrared because your light sources are rich in near infrared and you do not really care about the color rendition, forget the filter. That way you can use all the sensitity the film has to get an exposure. If you need to photograph only the infrared reflected (or emitted) from the subject, without recording any image from other parts of the spectrum, keep the filter.

 

[winger]

The book on IR by Laurie White (I think that's the right name) would be a good resource for you. Basically, incandescent lights (regular household bulbs) do emit a fair amount of light into the infrared region. Flourescents do not. I would still use the red filter and just use a tripod. To focus, you'll need to focus at a different point than with regular film. If you have a lens marked with IR markings (not many recent ones have it), then you'd just focus as you see it, then move the focus so that distance lines up with the IR mark. You can always add light for focusing then turn it off to make the shot. If your lens doesn't have the IR marking, then I'd suggest using an f-stop that will give you the largest depth of field you can get (then the exact focus point won't matter as much).
I haven't used rodinal, so I can't help with that part. I shoot as if it's 200 and use Sprint (1 to 9) at 68 for 11 1/2. I haven't done a lot of inside shots, though. The few I've done have been looonnggg ones.

 

[Helen B]

Household incandescent lamps emit more infrared than they emit light, in terms of radiated energy - if you look at a graph of the spectral intensity (how much energy there is at each wavelength) of, say, 2800 K incandescent light you will see that it hasn't reached its peak at the red end of the spectrum.

These graphs shows the spectral intensity of 3200 K light (left) and daylight (right) in the visible part of the spectrum. Blue is on the left of the graphs and red is on the right. You can see that the 3200 K rises steadily from blue to red, and is still rising at the limit of visible light ('visible light' is a tautology, but a helpful one in some cases). The graphs also show the output of very good fluorescent tubes - you can see that the 3200 K florrie is heading south instead of north at the red end. As already mentioned, fluorescents aren't very good in the infrared.

Dead Link Removed

One thing these graphs hint at (only a hint, because they cover the visible range only) is that there is a very different ratio of infrared to visible between daylight and household incandescent (which is more likely to be 2800 K or 2900 K than 3200 K). Daylight has a peak emission in the middle of the visible spectrum, quite close to our peak sensitivity - oh what a coincidence, and how convenient. Household incandescent has a peak outside the visible spectrum. Most meters are filtered to have a spectral sensitivity that is close-ish to that of us humans etc, so the relationship between a meter reading and the 'correct' exposure for IR film will most likely be different between daylight and tungsten. Fortunately the relationship will be quite consistent for tungsten light.

Unfortunately I'm away from my main computer, so I can't make the graph I should make - one that shows the spectral sensitivity of HIE, SFX 200 and Rollei IR compared to 2800 K incandescent. If the idea sticks in my ditzy head I'll do that when I have the opportunity. In the meantime, here is a graph I prepared earlier of TMY, TMZ and HIE with 1200 K radiation:

Best,
Helen

 

[Scandium]

Kodak HIE Indoors

I've used Kodak's HIE indoors quite a bit. I set the camera TTL meter at EI 200 and use a 25A filter in most cases. Development in HC-110 dil. B. The Kodak dev. times are a good starting point.

Indoors IR can be very unpredictable. It all depends on the dominant light source. I get predictable results indoors with incandescent or candle light with a 25A filter at EI 200 using TTL metering. If the lighting is mixed or predominantly fluorescent, make your best guess and bracket your exposures.

I've used Maco 820C which has similar spectral respons to the Rollei IR, also. 820C has much finer grain and superior resolution when compared with HIE, but because the film is essentially panchromatic with IR sensitivity, the indoor IR effect is quite a bit less than HIE. I usually rate it at EI 50 or 100 with a 29 (deep red) filter and develop in HC-110 or Ilford DDX.

I've shot HIE indoors in a number of cathedrals by candle light alone. The effect can be interesting. Fabrics will be rendered differently than a visible light photo depending on the IR reflectivity of the dyes and fibers involved. Stonework and woodwork may render differently, too, but the effect is much more subtle. I got some great shots in the Pisa Duomo by candle light and a little daylight filtering through the windows on a cloudy day. The photos show more detail than I could see... it was very dark. I was shooting 20mm wide angle at f/1.8 and 1/10 sec.

If you're new to IR, the Laurie White book is an excellent starting point.

 

[WRSchmalfuss]

I have a question for anyone here who might have some insight on this. I'm interested in taking pictures inside using infrared film using only some available light. Now the question, do I need to use the red filter (#25a I believe) or because of the lack of light involved would it be best to leave it off? Also for a couple of lamps set inside (60 watt or so) what am I looking at in terms of exposure and I know you can't be exact. And how about developing? I normally use Rodinal but would use something else if I have too.

Next what about that Rollei near infrared film? Has anybody used it and is it worth trying? And what would you develop that with?

Hello,

on the ROLLEI IR 820/400 film (it's not a near, it's a real IR film), I would suggest, that you address your question directly to the advisory service photo@mahn.net . There, you will get a firm answer, how to use the ROLLEI IR film indoor with #25 red filter.

Cheers