Influence of morning- / evening light on pan- / orthochromatic black and white film

[mongole]

Hello,

as I like clouds, I am doing a lot of long time exposure photography. As rule of thumb, you do not have much of clouds in the morning and evening, as the ones I prefer are cumulus clouds as they leave enough blue sky to get a structured sky. Cumulus clouds grow through thermals, which are not active in the morning and the evening. Hence, I often need to take images during the day with harsher sun conditions.

The calculation of exposure time also is getting really tricky during the fast changing light conditions in the morning. Another reason to shoot during not so fast changing conditions.

And also, getting up early is not one of my strengths

As I looked through the window I again was impressed by the mood caused by the morning light. This made me start to wonder: How strong is an image influenced by the morning light if you capture it on panchromatic black and white film?

First, of course, it's softer. This will be seen in black and white as well.

Second, it has more red's in it. Here it starts to get tricky. I am using Delta 100 most of the time. It's a panchromatic film, so it's sensitised to red as well.
As far as I know the red colour in the morning and evening light is a result of filtering out the other parts of the spectrum by the thicker layer of air and dust the light hast to travel through.
Is the shift to red influencing the appearance of the image?

Of course, I could go outside and do some test shots, but I am caught of a computer now and need to work

What are your oppinions?

 

[Xmas]

Hello,

as I like clouds, I am doing a lot of long time exposure photography. As rule of thumb, you do not have much of clouds in the morning and evening, as the ones I prefer are cumulus clouds as they leave enough blue sky to get a structured sky. Cumulus clouds grow through thermals, which are not active in the morning and the evening. Hence, I often need to take images during the day with harsher sun conditions.

The calculation of exposure time also is getting really tricky during the fast changing light conditions in the morning. Another reason to shoot during not so fast changing conditions.

And also, getting up early is not one of my strengths

As I looked through the window I again was impressed by the mood caused by the morning light. This made me start to wonder: How strong is an image influenced by the morning light if you capture it on panchromatic black and white film?

First, of course, it's softer. This will be seen in black and white as well.

Second, it has more red's in it. Here it starts to get tricky. I am using Delta 100 most of the time. It's a panchromatic film, so it's sensitised to red as well.
As far as I know the red colour in the morning and evening light is a result of filtering out the other parts of the spectrum by the thicker layer of air and dust the light hast to travel through.
Is the shift to red influencing the appearance of the image?

Of course, I could go outside and do some test shots, but I am caught of a computer now and need to work

What are your oppinions?

Yes the atmosphere acts as a minus blue (by scatter) filter that is why the sky above you is intense blue and the photos from the moon had black sky... and the sun at set is red rather then yellow...

You need to use a meter which is a close match to the film type for spectral sensitivity, cine used to have colour temperature meters for location, and CC filter sets to adjust.

You need to look at the data sheet film sensitivity and the temperature of the light for the data sheet. If Pan F is better use it instead.

Bracket shots...

Noel

 

[markbarendt]

A few thoughts.

One, morning/evening are not soft light, over cast and foggy are soft (no shadows). The more defined the shadows are the "harder" the light is.

Two, IMO it's about the direction of light. Morning and evening light illuminate subjects from a more flattering angle than mid day sun. The shadows fall at "pretty" angles.

 

[mongole]

Regarding the soft light - I also got a private message regarding this, hence the long answer:

In my understanding, the sun is a spotlight in more or less infinite distance. Hence, the light rays are parallel and shadows are extremely hard. In the morning, the light travels through the atmosphere and it's pollution and humidity, which backscatters a large part of the light. But the reflections are not just straight back into the universe but in all directions.

This reflection in all directions occur again and again, which makes the atmosphere a large diffusor. A very transparent though, but it acts like a big diffusor. This makes shadows soft in the morning and the evening, as the thickness of the atmosphere where the light rays have to travel across is increased. Also diffraction strays the light in all directions. Otherwise, it would be completely dark immediately the sun falls below the horizon.

This is my mental model of the soft light and I think it's not completely off..

Regarding Pan F: I really would like to use Pan F, but I shoot 120 Roll film and also 4x5. I do not want to use different films now, first I want to handle one type of film as good as possible. The fine grain, would allow even larger prints of 4x5, but the reality is sad and Ilford decided not to produce it anymore

However. I think I have to do the images to see the difference. I assume every film renders it differently.

 

[markbarendt]

The easiest way to see the reality of any given situation is just to look at the shadow you cast, if the edge is hard the light is hard, if the edge is soft (or non-existent) the light is soft.

While the atmosphere can soften the light some, it is by no means a given. If the air is clean then there is actually very little diffusion of the sunlight and the light will be considered pretty hard.

 

[snapguy]

where

A lot depends on where you are on this doomed planet of ours. The morning light is not the same in England as it is in the desert in my neck of the woods. The Inuit (Eskimos) have, as I recall, 17 words for different kinds of snowfall. We camera buffs should develop a similar number of words for types of light. Nothing beats actually going out and looking for yourself. There are no shortcuts if you wanna do it right. In my humbug opinion.