Inexpensive RF?

Ko.Fe. · Apr 6, 2015

Kiev 4? If I have to start with this one, I'll be SLR guy too.
Look for one made in Japan, with fixed lens. Tested with film. Best RF experience would be if you will find one with frame lines. I don't know if those two have it. I'm not $100 RF person, except my family FED-2.

Monday317 · Apr 6, 2015

FYI re: Kiev 4

f/16 said:
-- And if I do decide to get the Kiev 4, is there a repair shop that work on that one? I prefer shops in the USA to avoid the extra cost of international shipping both ways..

FYI, from the Certo6 website, regarding Russian Iskra 6x6 folders for your consideration; dunno if this would apply to a Kiev. You might want to check around the camera repair blogosphere, depending on your budgetary restraints, now and moving forward, just in case. We could be talking apples and oranges, or saving a serious headache:

[h=3]Russian ISKRA: REPAIRS[/h] What follows is an email I sent to a customer recently and needs to be shared with interested folder aficionados with a craving for an Agfa Super Isolette and settling for the enticingly low-priced eBay Iskra, the Russian knock off of the Super Isolette. (Pssssssssst.. Its cheaper for a reason read on):

The Iskra however is another story. Just recently I decided that I will no longer repair Iskras and your example simply verified that decision. Unfortunately, Iskras in near perfect condition can be awesome picture takers. Alas, such an Iskra is more rare than orchids in Iceland! The vast majority of Iskras that I have seen in the last year were sorry excuses for cameras, cameras that were in fact far beyond the point of economical and logical repairs. It is not just readjustment or the replacing of a spring to make these cameras worthy again all too often, the cameras are just simply worn out and the somewhat sloppy Russian Cold War manufacturing tolerances and choice and quality of materials bear much of the blame. Add to that the numerous repairs that previous owners have tried to make their Iskras usable and its just a headache and frustration that I no longer can endure. I have at least 8 Iskras sitting here that people have sent me and are actually totally useless. Shame too, as the Russian optics are really first rate, shame its in such a (now) worthless camera. Too bad !!!

ToddB · Apr 6, 2015

I don't have 49mm hoods or filters, but I've got alot of 52mm(a popular Nikon size).

Use step up ring. Can find these very cheap on Amazon. That's what I did when I acquired my QL17.

Todd

E. von Hoegh · Apr 7, 2015

Monday317 said:
FYI, from the Certo6 website, regarding Russian Iskra 6x6 folders for your consideration; dunno if this would apply to a Kiev. You might want to check around the camera repair blogosphere, depending on your budgetary restraints, now and moving forward, just in case. We could be talking apples and oranges, or saving a serious headache:

[h=3]Russian ISKRA: REPAIRS[/h] What follows is an email I sent to a customer recently and needs to be shared with interested folder aficionados with a craving for an Agfa Super Isolette… and settling for the enticingly low-priced eBay Iskra, the Russian “knock off” of the Super Isolette. (Pssssssssst….. It’s cheaper for a reason … read on…):

“The Iskra however is another story. Just recently I decided that I will no longer repair Iskras … and your example simply verified that decision. Unfortunately, Iskras in near perfect condition can be awesome picture takers. Alas, such an Iskra is more rare than orchids in Iceland! The vast majority of Iskras that I have seen in the last year were sorry excuses for cameras, cameras that were in fact far beyond the point of economical and logical repairs. It is not just readjustment or the replacing of a spring to make these cameras worthy again… all too often, the cameras are just simply ‘worn out’… and the somewhat sloppy Russian Cold War manufacturing tolerances and choice and quality of materials bear much of the blame. Add to that the numerous repairs that previous owners have tried to make their Iskras usable… and its just a headache and frustration that I no longer can endure. I have at least 8 Iskras sitting here that people have sent me and are actually totally useless. Shame too, as the Russian optics are really first rate, shame its in such a (now) worthless camera. Too bad !!!”

http://www.eco-logy.com/Botany-News-Article-2402.html

It helps to know something exists, and where to look for it...

spark · Apr 7, 2015

If you're hung on a Fed, Zorki, or Kiev- try Fedka's website. He offers CLA'd cameras for just a little more than you'll pay for an ebay gamble.

My favorite "big" RF is an Olympus 35RD- fast lens and good controls. The Canon QL 19 has the retro look and was very cheap compared to the 1.7 but it is more to carry than the RD/RC or Minoltas

PentaxBronica · Apr 7, 2015

Get a decent FED II with the collapsible 50mm f3.5.

I found one which was complete with the original case and lens cap for £35. Paint is a bit flaky but the internals have obviously been properly adjusted, as everything is smooth and quiet and it exposes evenly. It's pocket sized, albeit a tad heavy. No need to cut film leaders, just load as normal, fit the back/base, wind on a couple of frames and get on with it.

One warning though (also applicable to a lot of other early bodies): Never change the shutter speed without first cocking the shutter. You'll break something.

I would love one of the 35mm lenses for it but the body lacks extra framing lines in the rangefinder, so would need a clip-on viewfinder which seems clumsy. Said viewfinders also cost almost as much as the lenses! I have a 35mm for my Nikkormat FT and both 35 and 40mm in MF and AF for my Pentaxes, so I'm not in any great rush to find one for the FED.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 7, 2015

PentaxBronica said:
Get a decent FED II with the collapsible 50mm f3.5.

I found one which was complete with the original case and lens cap for £35. Paint is a bit flaky but the internals have obviously been properly adjusted, as everything is smooth and quiet and it exposes evenly. It's pocket sized, albeit a tad heavy. No need to cut film leaders, just load as normal, fit the back/base, wind on a couple of frames and get on with it.

One warning though (also applicable to a lot of other early bodies): Never change the shutter speed without first cocking the shutter. You'll break something.

I would love one of the 35mm lenses for it but the body lacks extra framing lines in the rangefinder, so would need a clip-on viewfinder which seems clumsy. Said viewfinders also cost almost as much as the lenses! I have a 35mm for my Nikkormat FT and both 35 and 40mm in MF and AF for my Pentaxes, so I'm not in any great rush to find one for the FED.

That's not a bad recommendation at all. But the emphasis on "decent" is crucial.

f/16 · Apr 7, 2015

Thanks spark. I didn't see any evidence of fedka's cameras for sale being CLA'd on the site, but I emailed him and asked.

f/16 · Apr 7, 2015

PentaxBronica said:
One warning though (also applicable to a lot of other early bodies): Never change the shutter speed without first cocking the shutter. You'll break something.

Yes I need to remember that. They're not idiot proof like my Nikons and Pentax's.

one90guy · Apr 8, 2015

IMHO for a reasonable small amount a Argus C-3 would be hard to beat. I discovered them about 10 years ago, they are very easy to work on as are the lens. Good luck in your search.

David

PentaxBronica · Apr 8, 2015

E. von Hoegh said:
That's not a bad recommendation at all. But the emphasis on "decent" is crucial.

I used the following technique:

First narrow your search to your home country. I reasoned that any being sold within the UK were probably being sold by an enthusiast who would at least be able to comment knowledgeably on the condition. A lot of the Ukrainian sellers seemed to be more in the antiques/Soviet collectables business than cameras. Besides which, as Ukraine isn't in the EU I'd have had to pay VAT plus the extortionate admin charge before the parcel would be released. Add those up and the cheap cameras don't look such a good deal now!

Secondly read the listing carefully. Any with "found this in Grandad's wardrobe" or "not used for years" were skipped. The listing for mine made mention of having film tested it and specifically said that all shutter speeds and the rangefinder worked. The latter particularly worried me as it's a bit more complicated than an SLR.

Thirdly, look at the overall condition. Mine looked as if it had been used extensively but carefully, rather than an immaculate display item. No dents or scratched glass, but a few bits of flaky paint and some shiny chrome (as opposed to the brushed matte finish they came with) around the edges. If it was last owned by someone who used it then chances are it's in full working order, as opposed to having been bought years ago, used twice, then left in the wardrobe because it was a day-after-the-vodka job.

thuggins · Apr 14, 2015

ToddB said:
Heard good things about Olympus 35SP is up near the top as well.

ToddB

Not sure that the SP would be termed "inexpensive". It is a mechanical marvel from every aspect, with a seven element lens that's recognized as one of the best ever put on a rangefinder. It is also quite big and heavy, and has a very long, stiff shutter release. The RC also uses trapped needle metering but the shutter button is much more user friendly.

f/16 · Apr 18, 2015

A few days ago I bought a Kiev 4m with Helios 53 1.8 lens from a seller in Ukraine. It's not the most reliable RF but that's the one I really wanted. And the price was lower than most of the others mentioned in this thread. The seller claims it's been tested and in good working order. It would be almost impossible to find one in my home country(USA). And most of the analog cameras on EBay from US sellers have descriptions like "estate sale find", "I know nothing about these", "everything SEEMS to be working fine, but I have no way to test it". Here's a seller's pic.

zehner21 · Apr 18, 2015

f/16 said:
A few days ago I bought a Kiev 4m with Helios 53 1.8 lens from a seller in Ukraine. It's not the most reliable RF but that's the one I really wanted. And the price was lower than most of the others mentioned in this thread. The seller claims it's been tested and in good working order. It would be almost impossible to find one in my home country(USA). And most of the analog cameras on EBay from US sellers have descriptions like "estate sale find", "I know nothing about these", "everything SEEMS to be working fine, but I have no way to test it". Here's a seller's pic.

Remember to change the shutter speed only after loading the mechanism. I broke my camera for this after only a month of usage :/

f/16 · Apr 18, 2015

zehner21 said:
Remember to change the shutter speed only after loading the mechanism. I broke my camera for this after only a month of usage :/

Thanks. Yes I must remember that.

Sewin · Apr 19, 2015

I've a Fed2 and Zorki 4, fortunately they are both functioning.

But the little rangefinder which I picked up very cheaply which really impressed me (once I changed the light seals) was the Chinon 35EE, also available as Gaf Memo etc.

quintobrena · May 18, 2015

I got an OLYMPUS 35 SP two months ago and since then I carry it with me everywhere!
It's beautiful, feels great in my hands (tried the 35 RC before and cannonet and prefer the SP by a high margin). Its leaf shutter is very quiet (well probably not like a leica RF) and perfect for low light because it is very low vibration (even compared with an olympus OM-1 that I use for wide angle street photos). The lens is very good zuiko 42mm f1.7. Fixed lens but 42mm is just perfect for street photography. The shutter has such low vibration that I've made decent photos with 1/8 sec. the only thing I don't like from it is that the lens is SINGLE COATED (blue/amber reflections instead of dark green/red).
The viewfinder is just perfect for me. Easy to adjust by yourself with two simple screwdrivers. Easy to focus.
Perfect for discrete photos very close to subject.
Very common on ebay.

yudiandra · May 19, 2015

go for olympus XA, deffo met ur needs for street bcs of its easy focusing and small size that no one will ever notice u

Xmas · May 19, 2015

quintobrena said:
I got an OLYMPUS 35 SP two months ago and since then I carry it with me everywhere!
It's beautiful, feels great in my hands (tried the 35 RC before and cannonet and prefer the SP by a high margin). Its leaf shutter is very quiet (well probably not like a leica RF) and perfect for low light because it is very low vibration (even compared with an olympus OM-1 that I use for wide angle street photos). The lens is very good zuiko 42mm f1.7. Fixed lens but 42mm is just perfect for street photography. The shutter has such low vibration that I've made decent photos with 1/8 sec. the only thing I don't like from it is that the lens is SINGLE COATED (blue/amber reflections instead of dark green/red).
The viewfinder is just perfect for me. Easy to adjust by yourself with two simple screwdrivers. Easy to focus.
Perfect for discrete photos very close to subject.
Very common on ebay.

The OM1 shutter is a near Leica clone, if you lock up the mirror and stop down the lens manually the Leica is only a little quieter, there are sample to sample variations in leicas as well.

The coating colours are not significant, the % reflected is and you could use a generic hood if it clears the rangefinder spot line of sight.

The single coated lens will flare more but flashes shadows to reduce negative contrast adaptively. Lots of people chose the Cosina voighlander single coated lenses...

The only disadvantage of the trapped needle cameras is the long shutter release travel. Which many people don't notice.

Regular Rod · May 19, 2015

How about eschewing 35mm altogether? If you get a folding rangefinder camera that uses 120 film you gain the benefit of much bigger negatives and yet the cameras are about the same size when folded as the 35mm cameras...

RR

cuthbert · May 22, 2015

f/16 said:
Thanks. Yes I must remember that.

Disregard that post, the Kiev 4 shutter is a carbon copy of the Contax II/III and you don't need that, just the Zorkis with slow speeds require to advance the film before changing shutter speeds, and the operation is safe with those cameras like the Fed 2, Zorki 5 and 6 who don't have them.

BTW, how is the Kiev experience going? I've a Contax IIa and a IIIa and I always wanted to get their Soviet competitor, but I would like one from the 50s.

Of course I've two Z6s, one Z4K an one Z5, I can confirm they are nice cameras when they are serviced and perform well, their main limit is that if you use a non 50 mm lens you also need the external revolver turret and the operation of focusing and composing becomes slower.

f/16 · May 22, 2015

"BTW, how is the Kiev experience going? I've a Contax IIa and a IIIa and I always wanted to get their Soviet competitor, but I would like one from the 50s."

This is my first RF so I can't compare it to any others. But I can say it's very klunky. Nothing is smooth or precise on this one But that's OK it's nice to have something "different". It's doesn't have that precision that my Nikons and Pentaxs have that I'm used to. As far as the RF experience....didn't like it too much. I started with SLRs and that's all I have other than the Kiev 4. I think I will always be an SLR guy and probably never warm up to the rangefinder camera. Even though it will probably never be a camera I shoot anything serious with, it's a very nice addition to my collection.

cuthbert · May 23, 2015

I understand that for something who comes from SLRs rangefinders might be difficult to use, give the Kiev sometime.

John Earley · May 28, 2015

I'm using a Canon P with a very nice Jupiter 8 50mm/f2 lens. I have a total of $120 invested in the camera and lens due to very judicious shopping on eBay. The Canon is nicer than one that I paid twice as much to purchase and the lens is just as good.

It's a bit over your price but well worth it.

papabird · Jul 11, 2015

I'm enjoying my yashica electro 35 gsn.

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Inexpensive RF?

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