Inexpensive 4x5 Lens Options?

CanDoBlue · Oct 18, 2016

I looking to build my own 4x5 monorail camera, and I have it almost all of it figured out except for the lens. All the lenses I see for sale are quite hefty in price and a bit out of my budget. Any lens suggestions are that are inexpensive, as to not kill my student budget?

ParkerSmithPhoto · Oct 18, 2016

Check out the Fujinon LF lenses from KEH.com - look for BGN condition and you'll do great.

EdSawyer · Oct 18, 2016

Any of the modern plasmats tend to be <$200 for a 150mm or 210mm lens. (Fuji, schneider, nikon, rodenstock)

BrianShaw · Oct 18, 2016

Look at Graflex Optar for an affordable and quite usable lens. If buying the least expensive you run the risk of buying a shutter in need of overhaul, though. Have you considered pinhole?

darkroommike · Oct 18, 2016

What is your budget? The Polaroid MP-4 lenses are cheap and the longest focal length, 135mm, will just cover 4x5 @ infinity. I suspect that a lot of the old 3x4 Polaroid pack film cameras also have lenses that will cover or almost cover 4x5. I've also picked up old Convertible Symmars with "issues" in fair to good shutters for around $100. There's also this guy selling simple LF lenses and new Packard shutters: http://re-inventedphotoequip.com/Home.html

Ian Grant · Oct 18, 2016

Brian suggested an Optar but there are plenty of other good Tessar (and type) lenses around at bargain prices, look for a 150mm f4.5 Xenar.

I saw a pre-WWII uncoated 135mm Tessar in a Dialset shutter for £30 ($36) on Sunday, they don't cover 5x4 quite as well as the 150mm but are quite capable at f22.

Ian

CanDoBlue · Oct 18, 2016

BrianShaw said:
Look at Graflex Optar for an affordable and quite usable lens. If buying the least expensive you run the risk of buying a shutter in need of overhaul, though. Have you considered pinhole?

A photog mentor also suggested pinhole by using an old projector lens and just taking on/off a lens cap. But I'm interested enough to to dish out enough for a controllable shutter speed/aperture, and shutter button. My budget is under 200+ for a lens.

DREW WILEY · Oct 18, 2016

I wouldn't even bother to look for a student-grade lens with a low list price. Rather, seek a decent used relatively modern 210 Symmar S or Fuji W, or Sironar N, or Caltar equivalent, or some other popular focal length. These kind of general-purpose mid-range plasmats are so abundant and inexpensive on the used market now that you don't even need to make a compromise in optical quality.

Dan Fromm · Oct 18, 2016

CanDoBlue said:
A photog mentor also suggested pinhole by using an old projector lens and just taking on/off a lens cap. But I'm interested enough to to dish out enough for a controllable shutter speed/aperture, and shutter button. My budget is under 200+ for a lens.

The normal focal length for 4x5 is 150 mm. As has already been mentioned, eBay is awash in 150/5.6 lenses from, in alphabetical order, Fuji, Nikon, Rodenstock and Schneider for 4x5 with Buy It Now prices plus delivery well under $200. Stop talking, start shopping.

If I were shopping for one I'd look for a Fujinon with lens name etc. engraved on the side of the barrel and in Copal shutter.

BrianShaw · Oct 18, 2016

That's not exactly a pinhole...

For $200 you can buy a decent lens. You just need to shop around: here or eBay. In that price range look for an older name-brand plasm at type.

Ian is correct - I mentioned Optars but don't ignore Xenar or Commercial Ektar!!!!

CanDoBlue · Oct 18, 2016

What are the most common 4x5 focal lengths? Also what is the focal range from top to bottom?

BrianShaw · Oct 18, 2016

CanDoBlue said:
What are the most common 4x5 focal lengths? Also what is the focal range from top to bottom?

As Dan said, normal is 150... Or 135 as some might say.

Other common focal lengths are 90 and 210... As you will find when you look at eBay offerings.

And as Dan suggests: stop talking and start shopping. You will educate yourself quite effectively by following that advice and investing 30 minutes of your time.

Happy shopping!

BrianShaw · Oct 18, 2016

One more suggestion, CDB... If you haven already check out this very useful information: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

darkroommike · Oct 18, 2016

CanDoBlue said:
What are the most common 4x5 focal lengths? Also what is the focal range from top to bottom?

The format normal is 150mm aka 6 inches. Press guys favored the 135 and even the 127 off the 3x4 Speed Graphic (I can attest that the 127 does NOT fully cover but those guys liked the wide angle approach). And as I may have inferred earlier the somewhat oddball 180's, 240-250's etc. are usually priced cheaper than format favorites like 150's and 210's.

Dan Fromm · Oct 18, 2016

CanDoBlue said:
What are the most common 4x5 focal lengths? Also what is the focal range from top to bottom?

To expand a little on Brian's reply, commonly-used focal lengths on 4x5 range from ~ 65 mm to ~ 300 mm. Focal lengths most commonly offered are in that range too. Not a coincidence. Go look on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/sch/Lenses/3323/i.html?_nkw=Lenses&Camera%20Type=Large%20Format

The shortest lens I can think of that covers 4x5 is Wild's 44/5.6 Super Aviogon. Unobtainable, can't be put in shutter. Heavy, too. One of my friends had one and I've dandled it on my knee. The shortest readily available lens is probably Schneider's 47/5.6 Super Angulon XL. Far out of your price range.

Some 3, 4, and 8.2 m lenses for aerial photography were made in the former Soviet Union. Totally unobtainable and quite heavy. To give you an idea of how heavy, according to a friend who was at Boyer the mythical 2500/12.5 Apo-Saphir weighs ~ 200 kg. Totally unobtainable. ~1800 mm process lenses turn up from time to time. A 4x5 camera can in principle be hung behind any of them.

More seriously, if you're thinking about the range of focal lengths to design for, well, monorails lend themselves to modularity. With a longer rail or extensions additional additional bellows and standard(s) to support it(them) if needed and the camera will accommodate lenses as long as can be obtained. To allow for the shortest lens possible, make sure that front and rear standards can be brought together and think about bag bellows. Given bellows frames, making a simple but ugly bag bellows is easy. I've done it. So think about making y'r camera's bellows easily removed/replaced.

To inspire or daunt you, I have a Cambo monorail that works with lenses from 35 mm (up to 6x12, not 4x5) to 900 mm. Short, medium and long rails, standards, bellows (plural), ... I covet, am not about to pay for if only 'cos I've never encountered a situation where using it would make good sense, a 1210 Apo-Nikkor.

DREW WILEY · Oct 18, 2016

When you're talking about a view camera, you're talking about perspective and depth of field movements, if in fact that is the kind of camera design
you are trying to replicate, and not just a sheet film box camera. So you need to select your lens accordingly, with a large enough image circle to
accommodate realistic movements, rather than just a nominal "normal" film diagonal equivalent to the focal length. In other words, it was once quite
common for students to buy a 210 for reasonable coverage and a mild tele effect for portraiture versus a 150. That's why 210's are so abundant on
the used market. Over time, shorter lenses with big coverage have been designed, but often at higher price, while true wide angle lenses like 90's, necessary for much architectural photography, have greater illuminance falloff and distortion, and if designed with wider apertures, significant weight.
So you have either select among these competing priorities or just get lucky. Otherwise, any modern general-purpose lens by the "big four" (Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon, and Fuji) is likely to perform excellently. With older lenses you might need to be concerned with the condition of the shutters.

CanDoBlue · Oct 18, 2016

A friend gifted me a Ilex portronic paragon 6 3/8" f:4.5 tonight. It has no shutter but free is better than $. Anyone heard of this lens before?

Andrew K · Oct 18, 2016

Simple - get a lens from an old folding camera. Anything over around 6 inches should cover 5x4. I use a old lens from a Ensign folder on my Crown Graphic when I'm looking for a "older" look - the results are great...plus the shutter will probably work correctly, and if not they are far easier to repair than a Copal or Compur shutter (a squirt of electronic contact cleaner will probably get one running correctly)

If you are on a really tight budget and are using slow film try an old enlarger lens - something over 135mm/7 inches should work fine...

one lens I would look out for is a 203mm Kodak Ektar - these are very sharp, and can be found if you are lucky in a working shutter for under $100

darinwc · Oct 18, 2016

Inexpensive lf lenses can be hard to source, because the shutters alone often fetch 100$

Here are some to look for:

127mm Ysarex (from Polaroid)
Convertible symmars
Ilex
Xenars
Optar/raptar
Older Fujinon lenses can be had very inexpensive.

Most important is to find a good working shutter. This can be hard with older lenses. So it's really worth it to spend extra money to buy a'known working' lens. Don't buy one from someone who'doesn't know anything' about them.

Dan Fromm · Oct 18, 2016

CanDoBlue said:
A friend gifted me a Ilex portronic paragon 6 3/8" f:4.5 tonight. It has no shutter but free is better than $. Anyone heard of this lens before?

It is from a long roll camera as was used to shoot high school students' portraits, will probably cover 4x5. The lack of shutter is a handicap and putting it in shutter will cost $$$. First for a used shutter, then for a shutter overhaul and then for adapters to hold the cells in the shutter and the right distance apart. It is a fine example of a poisoned gift.

Stop talking a start shopping.

Groundloop · Oct 18, 2016

A good overview of large format lenses can be found here:

http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/lenses/

including links to, among other things, recent-ish lens catalogs from Rodenstock, Nikon, Schneider and Fuji, which themselves have a lot of useful information. The lens coverage charts, for example, plainly illustrate why one lens barely covers 4x5, while another lens of similar focal length, but a different design might easily cover 5x7. You asked earlier what the most common focal lengths for 4x5 are, and you did get an answer, but you do need to be sure the lens covers 4x5 at infinity. You should be able to find quite modern 135mm or 150mm Rodenstock Sironars, Schneider Symmars, as well as Nikkor and Fujinon W series lenses in your price range.

Rick A · Oct 19, 2016

CanDoBlue said:
A friend gifted me a Ilex portronic paragon 6 3/8" f:4.5 tonight. It has no shutter but free is better than $. Anyone heard of this lens before?

I had a 10" at one time, excellent lenses, especially for the price you paid.

wy2l · Oct 19, 2016

A pinhole lens?

michr · Oct 19, 2016

You can often find Wollensak lenses over 135mm in focal length in shutter for less than $50. Keep looking and you may get one for much less. Look at the eBay sold prices to get an idea of prices. If you're inclined, you can buy a cheap 4x5 speed graphic, take the lens and resell the camera.

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 19, 2016

CanDoBlue, what kinds of photos will you be taking? As others stated, that makes a difference regarding focal length, image circle, center-to-edge sharpness, etc. The types of images you take plus overall quality greatly affect cost and types of lenses that best suit your needs. If you buy a lens that doesn't fit your needs then you'll have to sell it to fund another one and that can take some time. If you're unsure about the type of photos you want to take then you should probably get a good 'general purpose' lens, as others suggested, such as an older 150mm plasmat of modern design, similar to a Symmar-S or Rodenstock, Nikon, or Fuji.

If you have some examples you can post of other photos you've taken then maybe the good folks here can be more specific.

Inexpensive 4x5 Lens Options?

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