Including the rebate...

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ic-racer

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I almost never include the rebate in prints, however, I do have some negative carriers that allow this for those cases where I think it will work better.

This is one example. The first print lacked something. The sky blended into the border of the paper.

Scan.jpeg
 
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ic-racer

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Next I used a different negative carrier which allowed the rebate to be printed. The black border framed the print better in my opinion.
These both are printed on 8x10 paper with about 1" border.

Also, the edges of this particular negative carrier are not that aesthetically pleasing, so the edges are cropped out. I do have some carriers with filed out edges that look nice, but I would have had to change enlargers to see that one. I was pretty happy with the smooth outer border on this print.

Scan 1.jpeg
 
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ic-racer

ic-racer

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BTW, the lens is Nikonos 35mm lens. Yes, underwater camera. A fantastically sharp lens used out-of-water.
 

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This is the only shot I have showing the rebate, other than a handful of 4x5's. It's from an Agfa Isola, one of those low cost, 6x6 tube cameras, but this was the better model w/ a proper, 3 element Agnar lens. I think the film was, oh yeah, right. The file came out too big, my apologies.
ZgYZ3pH.jpg
 

Vaughn

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Works. It is a solid option...but it can be image-dependent.

While the rebate does frame the sky for you, it also changes the relationship the tree trunk has with the bottom of the frame. The trunk is rising out of the bottom of the frame (w/o rebate), and on the second image, the tree is resting on the rebate -- more contained within the frame. Different, not better/worse.

In the below case, the rebate helps to hold in the 'sky' (actually the eastside of the Sierra Nevadas). With a little tension tossed in on the top of the frame. 4x10 platinum print

Edit: The window mat would be cut to leave just a touch more than the actual film area showing
 

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koraks

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I generally print with the rebate showing, at least a thin edge, and at least on 35mm and large format contact prints. As noted, some image are benefited by it. For the others, it's simple to cut the matte a little smaller so the black border disappears. If that's not an option, reprint without the rebate.
It's kind of personal, I guess. And it may be just a phase I'm going through. One day I'll grow up, I swear!
 

Jim Jones

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Many photos are improved by a hairline border, but showing much of the rebate can be overwhelming.
 

MattKing

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I used to get good benefit some times from using the reflection/refraction from the edge of the negative carriers on my Omega D6.
Hallelujah-Matt King-2.jpg
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Can't be avoided when contact printing my negs for alt processes... unless I tape off the rebates with litho tape I've done that with Acros 4x5. For roll films, I have never allowed the rebate to be in a print... although I have allowed it for some of my videos, but that was for the viewers. I do like the sloppy borders, like in Matt's example, but going beyond that and printing numbers, arrows, and the manufacturer's name doesn't work for me.
 

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Someone here posted some pics from a MF camera recently that they had put 35mm film in, and those shots were great. If it's done right, it's a nice part of the composition.
 
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Sirius Glass

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If I want to show rebate on 35mm or 120 film, I use a glass 4"x5" negative holder and crop with the easel's blades. I would not waste time and money filing a perfectly good negative holder.
 

Don_ih

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If I want to show rebate on 35mm or 120 film, I use a glass 4"x5" negative holder and crop with the easel's blades. I would not waste time and money filing a perfectly good negative holder.

Try putting a 4x5 negative carrier in a 6x6 enlarger.
 

Don_ih

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I will sometimes print a thin black rectangle around 35mm enlargements. And contact prints. But not medium or large format enlarged.

1663708134650.png
 
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Another, that in my opinion benefits from the edge treatment.
Window.jpeg
 
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ic-racer

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Since I almost alway crop out the edges, I had to go through a box of prints from the early 1980s to find this one which I think works well:
I still have the enlarger and negative carrier that made this print, however, it is only good for small prints. As the hole filed in the carrier is pretty big, so the film is not held flat at all.
B&J.jpg
 
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ic-racer

ic-racer

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I actually tried to make some 16x20" enlargements showing the edges with that negative carrier in the 1980s. It turns out the (common, non-high magnification) lens I was using has a curvature OPPOSITE the natural bowing of the film at that massive enlargement ratio. I placed the negatives upside down to match the lens curvature.
 

DREW WILEY

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?? "Rebate" is Brit terminology. How did it drift into American usage, where "rabbet" is the norm? Interesting. Even in the picture framing as well as window trades, it's conventionally "rabbet" in the US. A rebate is when you get money back.
 

Vaughn

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I have never heard it called anything but the rebate. Nothing to due with frames, carpentry, wood, or windows....nor Welsh rarebit. 😎
 

DREW WILEY

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It's entirely parallel to woodworking jargon, even directly derived from picture framing and casement window moulding terminology via analogous contact printing frame design. A common shoulder plane was termed a rebate plane if made in Britain, such as olden British Stanley, but was termed a rabbet plane if made in the US by Stanley-Bailey, even during the same era (now Stanley is almost entirely made in China, and is best characterized as a Junk plane instead). I imported a lot of that kind of stuff from a variety of makers. The Germans like Kunz had their own term, but labeled them Rabbet planes when packaged for US sales. And there was a midwestern maker of tiny offset planes for sake of instrument makers who cutely marketed them as "Bunny Planes" - little rabbits. If those were made in the UK instead, they'd probably be termed Hobbit Hares.

When I used to write articles for Fine Homebuilding, they'd create sidebars to iron out contradictions in terminology even between East Coast and West Coast tradesmen, plus the general public - even had separate East Coast and West Coast editors. The Western one lived up there at Sea Ranch. Since I was heavily involved in restoration consultations, the local terms were very well established well back into the 19th C. If Carleton Watkins or Muybridge had asked a SF cabinet maker to make a contact printing frame for them, the term rabbet would have come into play. And I don't think it was derived from the "ribbet" of a Calaveras Jumping Frog that Mark Twain wrote about. Cottontail rabbits themselves don't talk much, so I don't know their own opinion on the subject.
 
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Vaughn

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Nah...film is not wood. We stitch negatives together -- not make joints and glue them together. 😜
 

DREW WILEY

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You stitch??? I never thought you'd be the type to hide a DLSR inside that 5x7 bellows. Ya jus never know. There were some massively stitched forest pictures - inkjets made by Bob Carnie - there at Hayward awhile back, along with the gent representing Arca cube cameras designed for that kind of thing. Two hundred shots and two months of tinkering at a computer workstation and, Voila, you've got a big image. I personally prefer one click with 8x10 film.
 

Vaughn

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Cut, stitch, hammered, and glued...

If ya can't (or do not want to) haul an 8x10 to the other side of the ball, a couple of 5x7s will have to do. 80 sq inches vs 70, but its tough to get everything.
 

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JerseyDoug

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According to the dictionary, the groove or recess to accept the glass in the back of a picture or window frame is called a rabbet in the US and called a rebate in the UK. But the part of a scanned or printed negative outside the image area is called the rebate by acquaintances of mine on both sides of the Atlantic.
 
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