In your opinion, what are the best non-Leica rangefinders ever built?

[henryvk]

Or, alternatively, you could buy a FED, 20 rolls of film and take yourself on an 1700$ vacation.

/s

 

[foc]

Or, alternatively, you could buy a FED, 20 rolls of film and take yourself on an 1700$ vacation.

/s

 

[manfrominternet]

Which model FED do you guys consider the best? I've also heard good things about the Kiev 4 and the Contax IIa/IIIa (not Soviet models obviously).

A few people emphatically told me to not look into Soviet rangefinders, but I am curious about them nonetheless.

 

[henryvk]

Which model FED do you guys consider the best? I've also heard good things about the Kiev 4 and the Contax IIa/IIIa (not Soviet models obviously).

A few people emphatically told me to not look into Soviet rangefinders, but I am curious about them nonetheless.

There are many opinions on this:

Usually the FED 2 is considered "the best" because it is an earlier model (the idea being that the later the model, the more the sketchier the quality control) but it has a combined rangefinder/viewfinder and a wider rangefinder base length which makes it more accurate.

Kievs I've never owned but, again, the earlier ones are thought to be better made and more reliable. The shutter curtains are more complicated and supposedly more prone to break, i.e. become disattached from the rollers/ribbons).

I'm not sure about the whole earlier models being better. The law of diminishing returns applies, so the older the camera the more likely that it will need bigger service, which eventually means new shutter curtains.

In general, I think if you are okay with working on the cameras yourself, FEDs and Zorkis have the advantage of being well-documented and easy to disassemble as well as being cheap. For a basic CLA partial diassembly (top cover off) is often all that is needed. To do this, you basically only need a set of precision screwdrivers, some q-tips/cotton swabs, a solvent (I use break cleaner) and something like gun oil.

(If you get a lens with your Soviet rangefinder camera, you'll also want an SLR/DSLR with a known good lens to check infinity focus.)

If you aren't going to do anything yourself, then those advantages disappear imo and you probably want to get a more sophisticated (Japanese) rangefinder and make sure it's been serviced by a trusted repairperson.

 

[reddesert]

The best FED/Zorki is the one that works reliably. I wouldn't get hung up on which model is the "best" because working condition is so important.

Because you've mentioned eyesight and needing a strong diopter, one of the models with an adjustable diopter eyepiece seems desirable. They generally don't have a large eye relief. Some of the early ones don't have slow speeds, so if you need speeds slower than 1/30 and faster than B, that is important.

The Fed/Zorki shutter is relatively simple, and if it works now it will probably keep working, assuming the shutter curtains are in ok condition. The Kiev/Contax shutter is more complex and while those cameras are cool, I would shy away from making myself dependent on one.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

If you don't insist on 35mm for your rangefinder, then the Kodak Medalist/Medalist II and the Chevron have to be in the running. I'm getting tremendous mileage out of my Chevron despite its quirkiness. Very precise rangefinder, leaf shutter in the lens so it flash syncs at any speed, brilliant Ektar 78mm f3.5 lens, and the top shutter speed is a 1/800th of a second. Built like an absolute tank.

 

[KinoGrafx]

Has anyone gone to bat for the nicca/sears-tower barnack copies? I had the tower branded one with a lever advance, and all due respect to the iiib I have now (and really like) it just seemed a better built, more solid camera. And tape the free light meter ( included here ) to the back and *boom* built in light meter

 

[Brad Deputy]

The Olympus RC is said to optically compare and/or outperform a Leica. If fixed 42mm F2.8 is your thing, you're in luck -- they're all over the used market in mint/near mint for <$300.

Plus, zuiko.com (John) can still repair and CLA them.

 

[David Lindquist]

If you don't insist on 35mm for your rangefinder, then the Kodak Medalist/Medalist II and the Chevron have to be in the running. I'm getting tremendous mileage out of my Chevron despite its quirkiness. Very precise rangefinder, leaf shutter in the lens so it flash syncs at any speed, brilliant Ektar 78mm f3.5 lens, and the top shutter speed is a 1/800th of a second. Built like an absolute tank.

There is noting about this forum or thread restricting us to 35 mm.

So I'll submit the 5 x 7 Linhof Technika V on the basis of mechanical quality and sheer negative size. (I've never used one of these myself.)

David

 

[african_jon]

You started this thread in January, please tell me you have bought yourself a 35mm rangefinder?

 

[Don_ih]

You started this thread in January, please tell me you have bought yourself a 35mm rangefinder?

He's probably bought 30...

 

[dave olson]

Well I have to say my Nikon S3 has the weight and feel of a M, plus it has a silky smooth film advance and shutter release.

 

[cliveh]

I would suggest that this thread has ignored the obvious answer that was given some time ago, which is a Reid and Sigrist. This is a better version of a Leica.

 

[M-88]

The Olympus RC is said to optically compare and/or outperform a Leica. If fixed 42mm F2.8 is your thing, you're in luck -- they're all over the used market in mint/near mint for <$300.

Plus, zuiko.com (John) can still repair and CLA them.

I use to own two 35RCs and I'm afraid the capabilities of the lens are often overstated. Main benefit of 35RC is its compact size and semi-automatic + manual (albeit unmetered) shooting modes. The lens can't keep up not just with Leica but pretty much with anything else when shot wider than f/5.6.

If there's Olympus 35 mm fixed lens rangefinder with truly good lens, it's 35SP, 35UC, 35 LC, all of which sport the same 7-element lens G. Zuiko 42 mm f/1.7. However, all three cameras have shortcomings of their own.

 

[M-88]

The best FED/Zorki is the one that works reliably. I wouldn't get hung up on which model is the "best" because working condition is so important.

Because you've mentioned eyesight and needing a strong diopter, one of the models with an adjustable diopter eyepiece seems desirable. They generally don't have a large eye relief. Some of the early ones don't have slow speeds, so if you need speeds slower than 1/30 and faster than B, that is important.

The Fed/Zorki shutter is relatively simple, and if it works now it will probably keep working, assuming the shutter curtains are in ok condition. The Kiev/Contax shutter is more complex and while those cameras are cool, I would shy away from making myself dependent on one.

Zorki-4K is by far the best Soviet rangefinder, in terms of reliability, serviceability and the fact that it has slow speeds too. It's so simple that even I serviced it, using a Soviet service manual with vague explanations and instructions. Of course it's not as suave as Leica or anything really, but it's better than the older models. Heck, it's got advance lever, instead of the knob. As for Kiev clones of Contax, I've read in several Russian sources that later models were actually more reliable than earlier ones. Not because of quality control, but due to simplifications made in camera mechanism.

 

[henryvk]

Zorki-4K is by far the best Soviet rangefinder, in terms of reliability, serviceability and the fact that it has slow speeds too. It's so simple that even I serviced it, using a Soviet service manual with vague explanations and instructions. Of course it's not as suave as Leica or anything really, but it's better than the older models. Heck, it's got advance lever, instead of the knob. As for Kiev clones of Contax, I've read in several Russian sources that later models were actually more reliable than earlier ones. Not because of quality control, but due to simplifications made in camera mechanism.

The Zorki 4 and the 3C are the only ones that have 1/1000 speed but what is your experience as far as framing accuracy goes? I remember having a horrible time with my 4K but that was when I still wore glasses and I hadn't learned yet to compare (and maybe correct?) the viewfinder field-of-view with what's on the film plane. For me, the VF had really fuzzy edges, only visible by peering into the corners and far too generous for a 50mm lens.

 

[M-88]

The Zorki 4 and the 3C are the only ones that have 1/1000 speed but what is your experience as far as framing accuracy goes? I remember having a horrible time with my 4K but that was when I still wore glasses and I hadn't learned yet to compare (and maybe correct?) the viewfinder field-of-view with what's on the film plane. For me, the VF had really fuzzy edges, only visible by peering into the corners and far too generous for a 50mm lens.

I serviced Zorki-4K for a friend and afterwards - I ran a few rolls in it. I did not personally own it so my recollection may not be accurate.

I shot with Jupiter-12 lens extensively, which is normally my enlarger lens and I used a turret finder for framing, since it's a wide angle lens. 4K's own viewfinder/rangefinder IIRC, lacks frame lines and parallax correction lines as well, so not very helpful. Two other quirks of it were shutter dial ("turn only when shutter is wound", "do not turn the dial directly from 30 to 1") and the fact that instead of etching, shutter numbers and even the camera name itself, are just painted on metal. Previous models, including plain Zorki-4 (without "K") have etching. Talk about cost cutting measures!

Haven't really paid much attention at 1/1000 speed, I was more in for slow speeds. Anything slower than 1/25 was absent from earlier FED/Zorki, just like 1/1000.

Never had any interaction with 3C ("C" is really Cyrillic "S", it stands for synchronization socket for flash), but it looks like Zorki-4 without a self-timer.

Would I say Zorki-4 is a good camera? No. Would I say it's good for 15-20$? Absolutely yes. Can't say the same about Kiev-Contax clones, considering complexity and necessity of servicing skills in case of malfunction.

 

[georg16nik]

Zorki-4K is by far the best Soviet rangefinder, in terms of reliability, serviceability and the fact that it has slow speeds too. It's so simple that even I serviced it...[...]

Only if Zorki 4K is the only soviet rangefinder you've seen.

The Zorki 4 and the 3C are the only ones that have 1/1000 speed but what is your experience as far as framing accuracy goes? I remember having a horrible time with my 4K but that was when I still wore glasses and I hadn't learned yet to compare (and maybe correct?) the viewfinder field-of-view with what's on the film plane. For me, the VF had really fuzzy edges, only visible by peering into the corners and far too generous for a 50mm lens.

Zorki 4 and the 3C are not the only that have 1/1000, not even close.

The first to get 1/1000 is FED S Komandirskie, made mosty from 1937 to 1941 with some samples made well into WWII in the evacuated in Siberia temporary factory.
Then you have the postwar Kiev with top speed 1/1250.
And so on...

[...] Anything slower than 1/25 was absent from earlier FED/Zorki, just like 1/1000. [...]

Nope, read above – FED S (1937) shutter goes from 1/20 to 1/1000.

[...] I shot with Jupiter-12 lens extensively, which is normally my enlarger lens [...]

Wait, so you re using a lens famous for the strongest distortion (even by SLR standards) for enlarging purposes?

 

[M-88]

Wait, so you re using a lens famous for the strongest distortion (even by SLR standards) for enlarging purposes?

Ohh, my apologies. If I had known it would amuse you this much, I would have sent you a private message stating this fact as soon as I signed up on this forum.

 

[henryvk]

Only if Zorki 4K is the only soviet rangefinder you've seen.

Zorki 4 and the 3C are not the only that have 1/1000, not even close.

The first to get 1/1000 is FED S Komandirskie, made mosty from 1937 to 1941 with some samples made well into WWII in the evacuated in Siberia temporary factory.
Then you have the postwar Kiev with top speed 1/1250.
And so on...


Nope, read above – FED S (1937) shutter goes from 1/20 to 1/1000.

I've never had a Kiev, I was only talking about FED and Zorkis. The FED S is very rare with only 10-12,000 units made, compared to hundreds of thousands of regular FED 1s.

What's "and so on", though? What other Soviet RFs have higher shutter speeds?

 

[georg16nik]

I've never had a Kiev, I was only talking about FED and Zorkis. The FED S is very rare with only 10-12,000 units made, compared to hundreds of thousands of regular FED 1s.

What's "and so on", though? What other Soviet RFs have higher shutter speeds?

FED B (1938)
FED-KMZ (1948)
FED-Zorki (1948)
Zorki-2 (1954)
Mir (1959)
Droog (1959)
Leningrad (1956)
Kiev 5 (1967)

Most of them are 1 sec to 1/1000

 

[henryvk]

FED B (1938)
FED-KMZ (1948)
FED-Zorki (1948)
Zorki-2 (1954)
Mir (1959)
Droog (1959)
Leningrad (1956)
Kiev 5 (1967)

Most of them are 1 sec to 1/1000

Technically correct and I might be moving the goalposts but:

FED B: around 40 units made.
FED-KMZ: around 150
FED-Zorki: 5,500
Zorki-2: 10,500
Drug: 23,702

These are rare or very rare cameras, especially compared to something like the 1.7 million Zorki 4s made (of which the Mir btw was a variant for the domestic market).

Leningrad and Kiev 5 are theoretically more common but practically they are still rare-ish.

Which is to say, you are correct but these aren't the cameras you'll typically find for a reasonable price online.

 

[manfrominternet]

I checked out the Zeiss Ikon ZM yesterday and it IS a stunning camera. Everything checked out EXCEPT for the rangefinder alignment which is slightly crooked. I fixed this myself on my Texas Leica (GW690III), so I'm wondering if this is also something I can fix myself or if I ought to have somesome else fix for me.

If I absolutely need someone else fix this for me, who out there could fix it, and how much might it cost?

 

[georg16nik]

I checked out the Zeiss Ikon ZM yesterday and it IS a stunning camera. Everything checked out EXCEPT for the rangefinder alignment which is slightly crooked. I fixed this myself on my Texas Leica (GW690III), so I'm wondering if this is also something I can fix myself or if I ought to have somesome else fix for me.

If I absolutely need someone else fix this for me, who out there could fix it, and how much might it cost?

The Zeiss Ikon ZM RF adjustment requires disassemble of the entire top panel – shutter winder, speed selector, etc... and is definitely nontrivial as in Barnack Leica and you won't get away with a simple screwdriver in 5 minutes.

Zeiss Ikon ZM is not RF service-friendly in this regard but if you managed the GW690III then you are up for the task.

Good luck!

 

[manfrominternet]

Is anyone here else a fan of the Zeiss Ikon ZM?