In praise of the Mamiya C System TLRs

Grim Tuesday · Jun 5, 2020

I just wanted to make this thread because I recently got a late-type waist level finder for my Mamiya TLR from a user on this forum and it has made me realize how truly excellent the system is. What it has going for it:

Freedom to choose between speed and automation with crank wind (C330), light weight quiet operation (C220) or low body price (earlier models) with same lenses
Focusing screens are good and bright, and interchangeable on C330
Did I mention low price? Even the most expensive bodies are cheaper than some accessories for other systems
The C220 is one of the lowest weight interchangeable lens medium format cameras, and the other competitors for this title are ten times the price (hasselblad, mamiya 6). It even compares well to a Rolleiflex 2.8F (1.25 kg rollei vs ~1.5 kg mamiya with 65, 80 or 105mm)
Absolute tanks
Lenses are still cheap, easy to clean, and easy to access shutters for repair. No helicoids that can get messed up. Some of them are real gems, too, and all have excellent bokeh.
Leaf shutter for sync if you're into flash
No mirror slap
Flat film path
The double-magnifier chimney is one of the best medium format finders out there. Spot metering porrofinder is unique as well. The late type hood can be closed with one hand like a Rolleiflex!
Compact 'vertical' form factor for carrying in a messenger bag. Lift up, open finder, take picture, drop back in.

I think the only downside of the system is that in isolation, lenses are not quite as good as some of its competitors. But I also think this is often made up for in final image quality when considering the ease of focus, flat film path and no mirror slap.

Did I miss anything?

Oh a few more after some discussion in the thread:

No dark slide to lose
No fiddly range finder to be miscalibrated, or to calibrate separately between different lenses
I've never had a light leak, and I've rarely heard of anyone having a light leak
Bellows focusing for close ups
And, a second bellows for the taking lens underneath the outer bellows so if the outside ones get damaged there will be no light leaks to the film. You can use this knowledge to get very cheap cameras...
Parralax correction that is adjusted per-lens on C330!
Lenses tend to be small, light and thin compared to other medium format lenses. I can fit the 65mm and 80mm in my pants pocket.
Choice of slightly wide, normal, or slightly narrow "normal" lens if you want to go out with only one lens

Arthurwg · Jun 5, 2020

OK, I want one. Which do you recommend?

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2020

But no removable film backs. Cannot change film midroll.

Grim Tuesday · Jun 5, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
But no removable film backs. Cannot change film midroll.

Just change the whole body! C330 and C220 bodies are cheaper than Hasselblad A12 backs.

Arthurwg said:
OK, I want one. Which do you recommend?

Do you want low weight, but a little bit annoying to take a picture (have to cock shutter manually), or pretty hefty but crank wind auto cocking shutter and film advance?

cramej · Jun 5, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
But no removable film backs. Cannot change film midroll.

But no darkslide to lose or bend!

Grim Tuesday · Jun 5, 2020

cramej said:
But no darkslide to lose or bend!

And no damn light leaks, either! Also, more precise focusing than a rangefinder.

I do have a Hasselblad and I like it a lot, though

BAC1967 · Jun 5, 2020

I have the C3, that doesn’t fall into the light weight category but that’s not an issue for me. I really like being able to do macro without needing to add accessories.

Paul Howell · Jun 5, 2020

I had a C33 for while, 105 and 80mm lens, I found it to be too heavy. Traded a Konica Omgea Flex for it. My parents got me the Omega Flex when I graduated from College, not really a TLR, had two lens, the viewing was direct view, no mirror, needed the 45 degree finder to get reflex viewing, 6X7 back, good for porturates not so good for landscapes. Liked the C33 much better, traded it for a Kowa SL 66, not as heavy, no dark slide, still no loss of a frame when changing lens. Bright viewfinder, availability metered finder, lens from ultrawide to 500mm, one Macro, no worreis about paralex correction, lens can be stopped down for depth of feild preview.

Dennis-B · Jun 5, 2020

Arthurwg said:
OK, I want one. Which do you recommend?

I went with the C330s, more because I got a screaming good deal on it and two lenses (80mm, 135mm). I've since added two more (55mm, 180mm). I often use it on a tripod, and I found a mint prism finder for it. While the lenses are not quite as sharp as my Hasselblad (compared the 80mm's), it's nothing that can't be dealt with in post processing.

I've often thought about an extra body, but don't know if I want a C330f, or a C220f. Decisions, decisions!!

As others have mentioned, there's convenience for film advance and macro with the C330, but the C220 is a great camera, also.

grat · Jun 5, 2020

I have a C33. I can take pictures, and build up my arm muscles, all at the same time!

All in all, I'm impressed with it I need to replace the light seals because they're crumbly, and the ground glass needs dusting, but the camera's solid as a rock.

The lenses can be prone to fungus/haze, though.

k.hendrik · Jun 5, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
I just wanted to make this thread because I recently got a late-type waist level finder for my Mamiya TLR from a user on this forum and it has made me realize how truly excellent the system is. What it has going for it:

Did I miss anything?

No fricking batteries

Own and shoot the C330f; lovely camera! Very good 135mm for portraits. But now in need of a 80mm lens.

Luckless · Jun 5, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
Just change the whole body! C330 and C220 bodies are cheaper than Hasselblad A12 backs.

Do you want low weight, but a little bit annoying to take a picture (have to cock shutter manually), or pretty hefty but crank wind auto cocking shutter and film advance?

I have been known to lug a pair of C330 bodies around... They're heavier and bulkier than film backs, but they're also 'ready to shoot' if you happen to use them to store your spare lenses and keep planning ahead of which lens you likely want where. [Or go all out and just bring a pair of 80mm lenses along.]

Pros and cons to everything. Love my C330f, and I can't imagine it will ever leave my collection, but I will admit to trying to source something with longer lens options and film backs for wildlife outings.

Grim Tuesday · Jun 5, 2020

grat said:
The lenses can be prone to fungus/haze, though.

This is the downside of their accessibility. I think what usually happens is that water gets in around the shutter and has a hard time evaporating. Or, since the shutter is not hermetically sealed in, if they are taken from cold to warm conditions condensation can form and take a long time to dissipate. I've seen this happen with some of my Hasselblad lenses as well. But, at least with the Mamiya 65mm, 80mm and 105mm D the front can just be screwed off and both surfaces cleaned with lens cloth or q-tip in alcohol and screwed back together.

k.hendrik said:
No fricking batteries

Own and shoot the C330f; lovely camera! but in need of a 80mm lens.

The 80mm lens is my favorite. So sharp and lovely bokeh. Of course not as sharp or contrasty in ideal conditions compared to Zeiss Planar, but a lovely lens nevertheless. Two photos I have taken with it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/49940538746/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/48662410362/in/dateposted-public/

Bormental · Jun 5, 2020

ah! GAS attack! brb...

grat · Jun 5, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
This is the downside of their accessibility. I think what usually happens is that water gets in around the shutter and has a hard time evaporating. Or, since the shutter is not hermetically sealed in, if they are taken from cold to warm conditions condensation can form and take a long time to dissipate. I've seen this happen with some of my Hasselblad lenses as well. But, at least with the Mamiya 65mm, 80mm and 105mm D the front can just be screwed off and both surfaces cleaned with lens cloth or q-tip in alcohol and screwed back together.

Typically, yes. I picked up a 135mm on eBay from "an estate sale with a little haze"-- And sure, with light shining straight through, it's "a little hazy". Shine the light sideways, and it's nearly opaque, and appears to be permanently etched into the glass. On both rear elements. But I'm not bitter. Really (actually, I'm not, I bought it dirt cheap, and the shutter works, and the front elements are in VG condition).

Grim Tuesday · Jun 5, 2020

grat said:
Typically, yes. I picked up a 135mm on eBay from "an estate sale with a little haze"-- And sure, with light shining straight through, it's "a little hazy". Shine the light sideways, and it's nearly opaque, and appears to be permanently etched into the glass. On both rear elements. But I'm not bitter. Really (actually, I'm not, I bought it dirt cheap, and the shutter works, and the front elements are in VG condition).

I have also run into this problem! For some reason on this tessar style lens, the rear group and middle element are both glued in and if there is something in between them (which apparently there often is) it is impossible to remove. Very strange choice by Mamiya.

grat · Jun 5, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
I have also run into this problem! For some reason on this tessar style lens, the rear group and middle element are both glued in and if there is something in between them (which apparently there often is) it is impossible to remove. Very strange choice by Mamiya.

That's the crazy thing-- it's on the outside of the rear group (facing the front element). If I wet it, the haze vanishes. Then it dries, and comes right back. It should be cleanable, for some reason, has resisted all efforts so far to clean. I've considered trying to polish it, since that surface appears to be flat, but I'm not that desperate.

Grim Tuesday · Jun 5, 2020

grat said:
That's the crazy thing-- it's on the outside of the rear group (facing the front element). If I wet it, the haze vanishes. Then it dries, and comes right back. It should be cleanable, for some reason, has resisted all efforts so far to clean. I've considered trying to polish it, since that surface appears to be flat, but I'm not that desperate.

How weird! I wonder if it was damaged by being stored near darkroom chemistry? Have you tried hydrogen peroxide on it? I've had good luck using it on haze that I can't get off other lenses.

markjwyatt · Jun 6, 2020

I just picked up a 135mm f4.5 from someone on this site, I have some 120 film, and have not used my Mamiya TLRs much recently, but am ready to take them for a spin as well as try the new lens out. I used them as my main cameras for about 20 years, and have really enjoyed using them. I have the C220f, C330f, C2 (set-up for single exposure backs, never used), 55, 80, 135 (new), 180 mm lenses plus a number of accessories.

mrosenlof · Jun 6, 2020

C330f owner since 1982 here. it went with me on my honeymoon, to the births of both my kids, a couple of trips to Japan, England also a couple of times. many photos of family members and friends.

I bought it in '82 because it was the medium format system with interchangeable lenses that I could afford just a year out of college. I started with the 135mm lens, and still like that "short tele" look.

A couple of shutters have been serviced. one was gummed up by a spider egg sac. I have one more that needs to go in. they failed to repease immediately when the release arm was pushed. I have a couple of extra film backs (bodies) now. mostly they came with lenses I wanted.

These days I tend toward the hasselblad obtained in 2014, but I used the Mamiya for a yearlong project that ended just last year.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jun 6, 2020

I graduated from Indiana University in 1999 with my Bachelors in Fine Arts with photo major. Art students had to do a graduation project, and I shot mine entirely with a Mamiya C330f. I had three lenses for it, the 80, the 55, and the 105; but I think I shot the whole project with just the 80mm. The image quality was magnificent. I have always regretted selling that camera.

This is one of the photos I shot for my art degree graduation project with the C330f and 80mm lens. I shot it 22 years ago, back in 1998, and it is still one of my favorite images.

Neil Grant · Jun 8, 2020

...they are pretty massive cameras with a real sense of 'driving' something during operation. Stump with 180mm Super, FP4 and tripod. Probably 1/30@ f/16.

Jeremy Mudd · Jun 8, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
And no damn light leaks, either! Also, more precise focusing than a rangefinder.

I do have a Hasselblad and I like it a lot, though

Well, they do have light leaks but are easy enough to reseal. I have a C220 with the blue-dot 80mm f/2.8 that I absolutely love. I bought it from a guy who's father was the original owner along with a cigar box of expired film. The first roll I shot showed a light leak from one of the seals in the back, but about a 1 hour job later and it was perfect. I've shot many rolls with it ever since.

Jeremy

narsuitus · Jun 9, 2020

Back in the late 1960s, my landlord introduced me to the Mamiya TLR camera. He had a C33.

I was so impressed with his C33 that I ended up using C3, C22, and C220 cameras with 55, 80, and 180mm lenses for shooting weddings, portraits, product shots, photojournalism, and sorority and fraternity parties.

When it was time to replace my worn TLR cameras, I decided to replace them with Fuji medium format rangefinders and Mamiya medium format SLRs. Even though I love the larger image size produced by the cameras I now use, I really miss the smaller size, lighter weight, and quiet operation of my old Mamiya TLR cameras.

macfred · Jun 9, 2020

The C220 was my first TLR - got it used in a camera store in Amsterdam/ NL in 1988. It was quite expensive back than. It came with a Sekor 80mm f/3.7 which seems quite unpopulare nowadays.
It was a camera I have nothing bad to report about - and one of the cameras I stupidly sold ...

In praise of the Mamiya C System TLRs

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