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In Praise of Clockwork mechanisms

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Theo Sulphate said:
No, it doesn't. A $10 quartz watch is far more accurate. If you read TimeZone.com, the various discussion forums, you'll see that the interest in mechanical watches, or horology in general, is all about craftsmanship.

In Seattle some years ago I attended a local gathering of TimeZone people - we all had our watches on the table, distributed among our dinner plates. One amusing comment that was made was "not a single one of us knew or cared what time it was."

With mechanical watches, the appeal and the expense is mostly in the "complications". - mechanical functions that go beyond indicating simple hour, minute, second. Things like diamonds and other bling don't mean squat to enthusiasts. For example, back in 1999 I wanted the Ulysse Nardin GMT Perpetual. Imagine a watch that not only gave you 24-hour time, but gave you a *mechanical* perpetual calendar that accounted for days of the month plus correct leap year calculations. Not only that, suppose it is Dec. 31, 1999 at 23:00 hours - with "Dec", "31", and "99" displayed in individual windows. Now press the "+" pusher once and the windows show "Jan", "01", and "00" - it's advanced properly to the next hour, day, month, and year, all mechanically. Pressing the "-" pusher undoes this. This feature is mostly for readjusting the time for DST, geographic region, or just resetting a stopped watch, but the mechanics to do a true perpetual calendar are amazing. I can write code to do that on a microprocessor easily and the watch would cost $20, but who cares? There are all sorts of complications, all sorts of internal designs, and that's what makes the hobby fascinating, enjoyable,and worthwhile. BTW, the UN GMT Perpetual back then was only $27,000. There are far more complex and expensive watches.

EDIT: more info here,

http://www.timezone.com/2002/09/17/the-ulysse-nardin-gmt-perpetual-limited-edition/
Click to expand...

I don't know about the Omega mechanical watch but I know about accuracy of quartz watch. Most of the $10 quartz watch can keep time to about 1 sec a day or better. I read some where that a well adjusted mechanical watch accuracy is about 5 secs a day but however a quartz watch is slow it's consitently slow but for the Omega that someday it's slow and someday it's fast so that over a year or so the Omega isn't worse than the $10 quartz watch.
 
I've not worn a watch in years, but when I did, only the cheap ones worked for me. A nice watch, mechanical or quartz, would die after a few months. It's strange. My paternal grandfather had the same issue.

Neither sync with an atomic clock, so human error means the time will likely be "wrong" regardless of accuracy. The Omega is more than accurate enough for personal use, has class, and looks much better than a $10 quartz watch.

"Better" isn't always better. Duct tape has superior holding power than cellophane tape, but I wouldn't use the former to wrap a gift.
 
Last edited:
In the 1960s I had need for time accurate to a second or two. The National Bureau of Standards broadcasts from WWV and WWVH were often available, but a watch would have been more convenient. A Bulova Accutron sounded ideal. In practice it was unreliable and too inaccurate.
 
Theo Sulphate said:
No, it doesn't. A $10 quartz watch is far more accurate. If you read TimeZone.com, the various discussion forums, you'll see that the interest in mechanical watches, or horology in general, is all about craftsmanship.

In Seattle some years ago I attended a local gathering of TimeZone people - we all had our watches on the table, distributed among our dinner plates. One amusing comment that was made was "not a single one of us knew or cared what time it was."

With mechanical watches, the appeal and the expense is mostly in the "complications". - mechanical functions that go beyond indicating simple hour, minute, second. Things like diamonds and other bling don't mean squat to enthusiasts. For example, back in 1999 I wanted the Ulysse Nardin GMT Perpetual. Imagine a watch that not only gave you 24-hour time, but gave you a *mechanical* perpetual calendar that accounted for days of the month plus correct leap year calculations. Not only that, suppose it is Dec. 31, 1999 at 23:00 hours - with "Dec", "31", and "99" displayed in individual windows. Now press the "+" pusher once and the windows show "Jan", "01", and "00" - it's advanced properly to the next hour, day, month, and year, all mechanically. Pressing the "-" pusher undoes this. This feature is mostly for readjusting the time for DST, geographic region, or just resetting a stopped watch, but the mechanics to do a true perpetual calendar are amazing. I can write code to do that on a microprocessor easily and the watch would cost $20, but who cares? There are all sorts of complications, all sorts of internal designs, and that's what makes the hobby fascinating, enjoyable,and worthwhile. BTW, the UN GMT Perpetual back then was only $27,000. There are far more complex and expensive watches.

EDIT: more info here,

http://www.timezone.com/2002/09/17/the-ulysse-nardin-gmt-perpetual-limited-edition/
Click to expand...

Very interesting and that Ulysse Nardin GMT Perpetual is beautiful.
 
Chan Tran said:
I don't know about the Omega mechanical watch but I know about accuracy of quartz watch. Most of the $10 quartz watch can keep time to about 1 sec a day or better. I read some where that a well adjusted mechanical watch accuracy is about 5 secs a day ...
Click to expand...

Five seconds is good. The better mechanical watches are submitted by their manufacturer for COSC Certification,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC

That is a good link that describes the process and standards.

The rate at which a watch will gain or lose time also depends on its position (dial up, down, etc., while being worn).

To counteract position variation, an extremely expensive complication is the tourbillon - whereby the entire escapement mechanism rotates through 360 degrees. To see one of these operate in real life is almost magical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourbillon
 
Jim Jones said:
In the 1960s I had need for time accurate to a second or two. The National Bureau of Standards broadcasts from WWV and WWVH were often available, but a watch would have been more convenient. A Bulova Accutron sounded ideal. In practice it was unreliable and too inaccurate.
Click to expand...

There are some watches today that will automatically sync with GPS systems.
 
In my active ham days (VE7APC), I listened to WWV every day. Mostly 15MHz There was an evening CW sked and the guy would not hang around for more than 5 seconds.
Settled a lot of workplace arguments about accurate time, as well. Some claimed that the clocks in our building showed every time zone on earth. (Nobody's job to adjust them!)
So, admin bought a whole bunch of GPS clocks. At last! Did not work indoors because of all the iron rebar in the concrete building frame & floors!
 
Theo Sulphate said:
Five seconds is good. The better mechanical watches are submitted by their manufacturer for COSC Certification,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC

That is a good link that describes the process and standards.

The rate at which a watch will gain or lose time also depends on its position (dial up, down, etc., while being worn).

To counteract position variation, an extremely expensive complication is the tourbillon - whereby the entire escapement mechanism rotates through 360 degrees. To see one of these operate in real life is almost magical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourbillon
Click to expand...

I have a number of HP calculators but I had the 41C which was stolen. I replaced it with a 41CV with the time module. I have a number of 41CX with Opt 001. I sold them all but one. After fine tuning the 41 clock I could get it accurate to something like 2 seconds a year.
 
Chan Tran said:
I have a number of HP calculators but I had the 41C which was stolen. I replaced it with a 41CV with the time module. I have a number of 41CX with Opt 001. I sold them all but one. After fine tuning the 41 clock I could get it accurate to something like 2 seconds a year.
Click to expand...

Yes. I have the 41C time module as well. Its capabilities are impressive.
 
index.php
 
There used to be "external self timers" for cameras, right? Basically a clockwork mechanism you could set from one to several seconds and it connected to a cable release, holding the shutter release down (in Bulb mode) for the timed interval.

It'd be great for simpler cameras that didn't have a self timer built in.

I seem to recall seeing one - a very small rectangular metal box with a dial, cable connection, and release.
 
:smile:
 
How did we get from cameras to watches? This is the real world! Behave or else...
 
Flavio81,my Nikkormats with Nikkor lenses will outshoot your RB67 any day, and unlike you, I do not have a hernia...
 
I'll use either, though most of my cameras have electronic shutters (OM2n, OM4T). If you're doing action photography and using the OTF auto mode, the electronics make that possible. In manual mode, obviously, a clock mechanism does the same job as electronics, and both have their own failure modes.

I suppose if the chips or circuit boards go bad (in my collection, most likely the OM4), right now you're kind of hooped. If there was enough demand, an aftermarket chip (or a full replacement for all of the internal circuits) could be made. Not economical for a few cameras but if there were 50 or more cameras needing electronics replacement, it very well could be economically viable to rebuild a 'modern' equivalent replacement circuit kit. I've done this work for a well known analogue tape deck (the Stephens 821b) and there are guys out there that could re-manufacture the electronics for some of these film cameras - although there is a dividing line as to what camera makes sense to tackle. One advantage of those LSI chips in simpler film cameras (I'm thinking of the manual focus, aperture-priority OM2, and at the 'complex' end, perhaps the OM4) is that the 'guts' are not that complex and could be reverse-engineered with fairly simple tools - the test/alignment tools and testers for that camera type, some normal electronic tools, and a decent working knowledge of both photography and electronics.
 
I assume salvaging another body to extract such IC is still more economic than re-manufacturing such.
But still, exchanging IC's as such can be mechanically tricky and sometimes necessitate re-calibration of electronics.
 
I assume salvaging another body to extract such IC is still more economic than re-manufacturing such.
But exchanging IC's as such can be mechanically tricky and sometimes necessitate re-calibration of electronics.
 
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