Imagine if you will....

[David A. Goldfarb]

Isn't there also an issue with backing paper that the edges are stretched or rolled, so they form a seal with the ends of the spool to prevent light leaks? I believe the backing can't just be slightly wider than the film, because then the edges would be too thick and it wouldn't roll tightly, so this stretching makes the edges thinner at the same time as making the paper slightly wider. Not getting this right is what causes the light leak problems associated with Efke and Forte 120 films, though Foma seems not to have these problems.

 

[Photo Engineer]

David, there is an issue with the edges but I'm not sure what the entire problem is. I know that it is a very exacting job to get them to fit without spooling defects and light leaks. Simple slitting and chopping is not the answer AFAIK.

PE

 

[JBrunner]

that the day that you have long dreaded has arrived. April 12 2015. After this day there will be NO MORE FILM. All the manufactureres have thrown in the towel. No one will be selling emulsion recipes and setting up coating plants in India. Hasselblad has been out of the film camera business for years. Ilford b&w division has cried "uncle". No film. No paper. You have examined that digital world and found that it doesn't satisfy your aesthetic demands. "Those digital prints aren't photographs they arenothing but posters". You must make photographs. Those gorgeous b&w prints that you have mortgaged your life in order to perfect. Gone.
You stand naked in a bleak landscape. How do you escape? How do you satisfy your soul? What is your solution? Show us how creative you will be. Find a way.

Severian, autarch of urth, Jack B, aka Mr. Orwell

Glass.

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

Hello Photo Engineer,

The ink treating, usually heat setting in roto gravure, is one way of avoiding holdout, set-off or delamination of inks from the paper. At one time not very long ago (under ten years) supercalendered papers, which would be better for this process, where common mostly just in Europe. Now over 2M tonnes of this are used each year, giving better quality and more availability to companies running gravure operations. Gravure inks tend to be solvent based, though the long tack and the use of heatsetting makes them very durable. Their are also water based and synthetic gravure inks, which have another benefit of not being volatile. If handled improperly, gravure inks can ignite or explode.

Let us imagine that many printing problems are now solved, otherwise we would not have any backing papers. So in gravure, or specifically roto gravure, the economies of scale mean 800 feet per minute of around 40" to 60" widths on smaller presses, up to near 3000 feet per minute of around 120" widths on the largest and fastest presses. That should give people an idea of volumes of printing needed. Maybe the entire roll film paper backing in the world today only represents under one month of output, compared to maybe several years ago it was two or more months of output. We have to consider that presses who have been doing this printing are experiencing a reduction of orders, and might not be that interested in doing runs of this backing paper.

Something that might help me, would be to understand the assembly machines. If the paper backing is on rolls, individual strips, or uncut 40" to 120" drums. Who does the cutting could be a factor in quality control. As one might imagine, even the smaller gravure presses are high speed, so an error could encompass numerous rolls of film. I would bet that if the existing companies doing the printing indicated that they did not want to do the runs in the near future, there would be other companies willing to step in.

So for now, I do appreciate all the great information. I have left some detailed notes on my Palm Pilot for early 2007, so that I can speak with the paper companies, and some of the companies in the US running these large roto gravure operations. I will take some backing paper with me, and ask about reproducing it. I enjoy these sorts of technical challenges.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

 

[lee]

I will move to a colder climate and drink lots of water and beer and pee in the snow/

lee\c

 

[sergio caetano]

Why think about something won't happen ?

 

[Bromo33333]

that the day that you have long dreaded has arrived. April 12 2015. After this day there will be NO MORE FILM. All the manufactureres have thrown in the towel. No one will be selling emulsion recipes and setting up coating plants in India. Hasselblad has been out of the film camera business for years. Ilford b&w division has cried "uncle". No film. No paper. You have examined that digital world and found that it doesn't satisfy your aesthetic demands. "Those digital prints aren't photographs they arenothing but posters". You must make photographs. Those gorgeous b&w prints that you have mortgaged your life in order to perfect. Gone.
You stand naked in a bleak landscape. How do you escape? How do you satisfy your soul? What is your solution? Show us how creative you will be. Find a way.

Severian, autarch of urth, Jack B, aka Mr. Orwell

Is this before telepathy is widespread, or AFTER? Also is this around the time that we have aviation school for Suidae?

 

[Black Dog]

Well, I'm going to get 'Lost' on DVD and try and figure out what the****%$^&()"£$%*** is going on. Or maybe they'll have made it off the island by then. :confused:

 

[severian]

Got it

What really ticks me off is that you, Jack, as "autarch of urth" would let things come to such a desperate patch! I think it's just a shameless dodge to get us to start thinking about learning to draw and paint and increase the enrollment at the school where you teach. If such terrors do come to pass, PhotoEngineer will become an icon...a folk hero...!! Perhaps you're in cahoots with him, trying to drum up 'learn to coat your own' business (which, btw, is a very good thing!). I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!! Hrrrrummmph!!

AAARGGGHHH! Jovo got it. How did he figure it out? The only mistake he made was to assume that I have ultimate power over the destiny of photography. I'm working on it.

Severian, Autarch of Urth, referred to by his intimates as Jack B

 

[severian]

Homage

to Zen Masters Blansky and David Goldfarb. They have re-invigorated my enthusiasm. For them the silver sky might have fallen but they will continue to create art.

Severian, Autarch of Urth, known to his intimates as Jack B

 

[Photo Engineer]

I'm not in cahoots with Severian.

PE