I'm not sure that's right...

[Ces1um]

Just bought a digital camera- an Olympus om-d em5 mii. I come from a film background so digital stuff is a little new/different to me. I was out the other night and shot some photos of some ducks on the water. There was a little bit of a breeze but the ducks were pretty much just going with the flow. Shot at iso 200, f11, 1/160, single point autofocus, face detection off, ibis on in all four axes. 8/10 of these photos failed to be in sharp focus. I did get 2 usable (and quite sharp) shots though. Now I'm thinking, why did those first 8 shots miss focus? 1/160th of a shutter speed should have frozen the action. It would have on my film camera. F11 means I should have had quite a bit of depth of field. I wrote Olympus tech support including the raw photos (good and bad) and they responded with "subject moved, select a higher shutter speed". In my mind, 1/160th of a second is pretty good to freeze action. It's not like the ducks were taking off. They were just kinda floating on the water. I know digital is different when it comes to focusing and all that. Do I really need a faster shutter speed when using digital when compared to my old film cameras? To me that doesn't make any logical sense.

Can anyone else think of reasons why my focus is missing? I do half press the shutter, and I do get the green "lock on" targeting reticle on my subject. My firmware for both camera and lenses are updated to their most current versions. It was a pretty bright light situation.

To add insult to injury I also find a lot of my close up photos are missing focus as well, but that could be me swaying a bit too much when trying to get a shot.

 

[MNM]

what lens and focal length? I had some trouble with a 14-42 EZ pancake lens and at 42 mm it would not focus past about 20 feet. Somewhere between repeated use and firmware updates for the lens and camera it seems OK now but was puzzling.for a while.

 

[nmp]

What was the focal length? Micro-4/3 have a crop factor of 2 so effective focal length is 2x the nominal. So the handheld-shake/motion-blur thumb rule will need to include a factor of 2 as well.

You can try and do a controlled experiment indoors by shooting a foot rule at an oblique angle focusing on a marking with lens wide open using a tripod and checking where it actually focuses. If you see an error, which is not altogether unheard of, then it's the camera auto-focus mechanism and you can speak to the rep again with the data and get a replacement. I am not sure if there is any adjustment you can do in the camera that can compensate (like my Nikon does) for a focusing error. If that is the case, then may be the problem can be corrected.

 

[Ces1um]

what lens and focal length? I had some trouble with a 14-42 EZ pancake lens and at 42 mm it would not focus past about 20 feet. Somewhere between repeated use and firmware updates for the lens and camera it seems OK now but was puzzling.for a while.

I'm missing focus with both the 14-150 kit lens as well as the 60mm macro lens. The macro does poorly when used as a simple 60mm lens (not in close focus mode) and the 14-150 does poorly near it's closest focusing distance.

 

[removed account4]

Did you buy it from a local shop you can take it to and ask them to take a peek at it ? Were you using a tripod? Image+Sensor Stabilization ? Some
reviews suggest you can make exposures with very slow shutter speeds handheld and not have issues. From what he talking heads say that camera is something else !
John

 

[Jim Jones]

If the Olympus tech saw movement in your photos, camera movement is more likely than subject movement, especially when reaching out to capture wildlife. Try sacrificing low ISO for faster shutter speed.

 

[wombat2go]

Take test shots in various lighting. Check the lag between shutter press and the exposure, and brace accordingly.
I have the much earlier E_PL-1
Wife initially commented about the delay when taking photos of the kids.
Firstly, the camera focusses on a half press, maybe half a second,
Even so, sometimes there is a delay when the shutter is fully pressed for exposure.

 

[MNM]

what lens and focal length? I had some trouble with a 14-42 EZ pancake lens and at 42 mm it would not focus past about 20 feet. Somewhere between repeated use and firmware updates for the lens and camera it seems OK now but was puzzling.for a while.

I'm missing focus with both the 14-150 kit lens as well as the 60mm macro lens. The macro does poorly when used as a simple 60mm lens (not in close focus mode) and the 14-150 does poorly near it's closest focusing distance.

Put it on a tripod and use the focus assist to verify focus is correct. Use the timer to remove motion blur as a variable and test at different focal lengths and distances combined with the distance marks like nmp mentioned. See if the results are different. Should tell you if it's motion blur or front/back focus issues in one test.

 

[shutterfinger]

I got similar with a Nikon D300 and 35-135 f3.5-f4.5 AF Zoom at 135 with a 125 to 250 shutter speed, camera shake killed the shots.
Single shot AF locks the focus at a fixed distance. The ducks moving either parallel to the image plane or toward or away from the image plane changed the focus distance. Whether the DoF would correct for the distance change or not depends on how far the ducks were from the image plane, if it was 25 feet or less probably not, 50 feet or more its likely.
This is where a monopod and continuous AF are useful.
Crop from D300, 35-135 at 135, f7.1, 1/500; aperture priority, centerweighted, single shot AF, monopod.

 

[Ariston]

I'm not familiar with that camera, but if it is 4/3 then anything past 80mm might have camera shake at that shutter speed. I'm conservative with my handheld focal length to shutter speed ratios... especially with digital. You really can get away with higher ISOs in modern digital cameras,

 

[blockend]

F11 is extremely closed down in M4/3 terms, well into diffraction territory. Also check that your lens is on speaking terms with the body, not all combinations have full axis stabilisation. I'd err on the side of tradition and go for a shutter speed reciprocal with full frame focal length equivalents, and slow the shutter once you're confident everything is sharp. Don't worry about ISO 400 to 800 on modern micro four-thirds cameras.

 

[Ces1um]

I'll post two photos when I get home later tonight. They were taken at the same time, of the same subjects, with the same settings. One is tack sharp and the other is headache inducing and makes me question my eyesight. I don't think it's diffraction- it's definitely a focus issue. I wanted a large depth of field to get the ripples on the water in focus around the birds (now that I think of it, I think they were Canada geese and not ducks).
As for focus peaking- I rarely carry a tripod around and it seems to me that focus peaking really needs to be used when tripod mounted. Maybe I need to use a tripod more often though. It's just I usually have a camera in hand and a dog on leash. I'd have to strap it to my back I suppose.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Does macro have macro switch.
With 14-150 you could just be too close for it mfd.
Ducks are not the way to check focus accuracy. Use focus target print.
And do no expect to have very detailed image for distance shots from mft format.

 

[Ces1um]

Does macro have macro switch.
With 14-150 you could just be too close for it mfd.
Ducks are not the way to check focus accuracy. Use focus target print.
And do no expect to have very detailed image for distance shots from mft format.

My macro does have a macro switch and I use it when shooting macro. I switch it "off" when I'm shooting at a distance (which is where the trouble is). It's not that it won't focus. It's just that 8/10 shots will miss focus and 2/10 will be sharp as a razor. And by off I mean to the point where it hunts for focus at further distances and not close up.

I haven't really done any tests for focus accuracy yet. I only heard back from Olympus yesterday morning.

Why would m4/3 not produce a detailed shot? I've taken plenty of photos at a distance that have produced beautifully detailed shots.

Like I said, once I get home tonight I'll post two shots taken one after another and it'll give everyone an idea of what's going on. Really I should have provided them when I first posted.

 

[shutterfinger]

Nikon D300 (APS C sensor), 35-135 f3.5-4.5 AF Zoom at 135, 1/80 f8, AF-C, hand held.

The softness is due to camera shake and likely closer to what you're experiencing. A monopod with a low profile ball head will be far more convenient than a tripod.
Test the focus with a tripod and fixed target as AF sensors can be fooled especially when the subject is smaller than the sensor area or the sensor area is 2/3 on the subject.

A lens test target https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=lens+test+chart printed at the printers highest resolution , either in multiple panels or several copies attached flat to a fixed surface makes accurate focusing testing easy.

 

[Ces1um]

Nikon D300 (APS C sensor), 35-135 f3.5-4.5 AF Zoom at 135, 1/80 f8, AF-C, hand held.
View attachment 225516

The softness is due to camera shake and likely closer to what you're experiencing. A monopod with a low profile ball head will be far more convenient than a tripod.
Test the focus with a tripod and fixed target as AF sensors can be fooled especially when the subject is smaller than the sensor area or the sensor area is 2/3 on the subject.

A lens test target https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=lens+test+chart printed at the printers highest resolution , either in multiple panels or several copies attached flat to a fixed surface makes accurate focusing testing easy.

That's awfully close to what I'm experiencing but my shutter speed is 1/160th. twice the speed that you took yours at. I would personally have thought it would be sharper.

 

[nmp]

I would also check if you were using single-focus mode or continuous-focus mode. The former as the name suggests sets the focus at half shutter but then does not change if the subject moves. The latter will keep readjusting as long as as you hold the shutter. Another issue to consider in such situations.

 

[Ces1um]

I would also check if you were using single-focus mode or continuous-focus mode. The former as the name suggests sets the focus at half shutter but then does not change if the subject moves. The latter will keep readjusting as long as as you hold the shutter. Another issue to consider in such situations.

I do know SAF was engaged and not continuous. I only had a single small point selected though rather than a grid covering all the birds.

 

[nmp]

I do know SAF was engaged and not continuous. I only had a single small point selected though rather than a grid covering all the birds.

There are so many different things one can select or not select in a digital camera as opposed the simple film cameras that a lot of times it is simply picking the right set of settings for a given situation and not the camera per se (although that should not be ruled out until you test for accuracy.) It takes time to get used to them. Most cameras have custom settings designed for typical scenarios. Might want to check if yours have one for bird/wildlife pictures.

 

[Ariston]

That's awfully close to what I'm experiencing but my shutter speed is 1/160th. twice the speed that you took yours at. I would personally have thought it would be sharper.

Twice the speed is only one stop faster. What was your focal length?

 

[MattKing]

I have a similar camera - OMD EM10 MkII - and use a somewhat similar 14-42mm kit lens.
I'm definitely better at using it than when I started, and I get better results when I use it regularly than when I pick it up after not using it for a while.
It is probably important to understand that I need to use a somewhat more complex way of holding the camera than most, because my right hand lacks some dexterity.
With that in mind, my observation is that the camera is so small and light that techniques that work great with larger and heavier cameras lead to more camera movement in the OM-D.
When I concentrate on keeping the camera still, I find that the image stabilization allows me to get great results at remarkably slow shutter speeds. When I'm not thinking about camera movement, even higher speeds can overwhelm the image stabilization.
This may sound counter-intuitive, but when I pick up the camera again after not using it for several days, I find it helpful to start by taking all my handheld shots using the 2 second self timer. I compose, adjust exposure, check focus, release shutter and then concentrate on keeping the camera still for two seconds. After doing that for a bit, the muscle memory seems to kick in and I can get the same results without the self timer being on.
IIRC, I was using that 2 second self timer technique with this shot:

 

[Ces1um]

Twice the speed is only one stop faster. What was your focal length?

it's 60mm.

 

[Ariston]

it's 60mm.

If I am right (probably not) then the 35mm equivalent is 120mm, so a shutter speed of 1/160 is cutting it close for handheld... at least for my jittery hands.

 

[Luckless]

I found single point continuous focus to be more reliable for motion shots than single point single focus, at least with how my 7D implemented its focus system.

However that came with the condition of configuring the focus system settings to have a slow response, rather than its fastest setting:

- With it on the fast setting the focus system would happily jump between trying to focus at different areas if you moved off target slightly, and caused far more 'hunting'. Especially when the auto focus got itself locked onto a wave or blowing reed in the far back/foreground rather than locked on my subject.
- When set to the slower setting it would wait longer before locking onto 'the next thing', giving more reliable subject focus lock.


Combination of high contrast specular reflections off the water and a moving subject combines rather nicely to end up not being focused on what I thought I was.

Maybe confirm that it focuses on a stationary target as you expect, and then test around moving targets more?

 

[Ces1um]

okay- here they are. They're considerably downsampled so I can upload them to photrio but you'll get what I'm on about. The settings for these two photos are identical. The first is the blurry one. The second is much sharper. Just click on the thumbnails. I suspect though that my focal length does need additional shutter speed as members have suggested. It's just odd that two photos, taken moments apart, can have such drastically different results.