I'm looking to buy a medium format Camera

[narsuitus]

I don't like the way the camera shoots (having to hang round my neck and look down) so would you recommend I just try a different viewfinder?

When I want to use my RB67 at eye-level, I use a prism finder.



Built like a ... by Narsuitus, on Flickr

 

[Sirius Glass]

I also own the Mamiya RB67. When I want to use a lighter eye-level medium format camera, I use a Fuji rangefinder.


Medium Format Kit by Narsuitus, on Flickr

When I want to shoot at eyelevel with my Hasselblad I use the 45° PME [prism with a light meter].

 

[John Koehrer]

Using an eyelevel finder is going to add quite a bit of weight, If you think the camera's heavy just weight.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[guangong]

Looking down depends on what you are looking down into. Looking down into a Rolleiflex TLR would be a different experience and also more ergonomic. Also, very handy when fitted with prism and pistol grip.
However, if you prefer eye level finder, don’t overlook Medalist. Built to US navy specification, construction is awesome, as is 100mm Ektar lense. Also, the folders mentioned above, such as Mamiya, are worth considering. I prefer Super Ikonta B. I have a Fuji GF 670 folder with electronic shitter and built in light meter, but I haven’t found it to be a camera that feels that comfortable in my hands. You may find otherwise.
Serious Glass comments on repair ability of Hasselblad makes a lot of sense.
Decisions!!!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Similar to the Mamiya press is the Konica Rapid 100. Unlike the Mamiya when film is film is advance the pull push lever the shutter is cocked, which is why it was called the rapid. In operation more like a 35mm than a Mamiya, only 3 lens were made for it, Konica made very good glass, some of the best. It's a 6X7 with interchangeable backs. Will run a lot less than a Mamiya 7 but a little more than a Mamiya press. If you find one that has been rebuilt a Kiev 60, 6X6 rather than 6X7, glass is pretty good.

Only the 200 has interchangeable backs, nothing like that on the 100. I call my Rapid 100 with the 58mm the KWVBC, or Kinda-Wide-Very-Big-Cam. 58mm on 6x7 is about a 28mm equiv on 35mm, so not really anything like the Hassy SWC. Nevertheless, I took my favorite ever wide angle picture with it, the 58mm lens can be superb. It's kinda fun to treat it like a fixed lens rangefinder. I've also gotten some sub-par shots with it, a phenomenon I now attribute to a bad lens/rangefinder coupling. It could also just be issues with closer-than-infinity shots. I ended up selling the camera before developing the last roll I took with it, and I of course found a bunch of awesome pictures on the roll. So I just got another one, which reminded me how much I hate handling this camera. It is huge and nearly impossible to fit into a backpack or camera bag because of it's bizarro shape. with the grip. Taking off the grip makes it almost compact but then there's no way to hold it. I might sell it again.

Also, there are four lenses available for the system, not three. The 58mm/60mm, 90mm, 135mm and 180mm. 135mm is very hard to find (but I have one up for sale right now...gotta fund my camera addiction somehow...) There is debate on whether the 58mm is the same as the 60mm, best information I've seen is that the 60mm is a 6 element design and 58mm is an 8 element design, but they are both 58mm focal length. Since it seems that it took people until 2011 to notice this, I don't think there is a big difference in them. I was not ever super impressed with the 90 -- it's razor sharp in the center at f8 like the xenar on my rolleicord and rokkor on autocord but can't keep up with other standard lenses for "professional" medium format cameras like the Hassy, Rolleiflex and even Mamiya TLRs at lower apertures.

Anyways, I really wouldn't recommend this camera to anyone looking for something easy to handle, even though it is an "eye-level" camera.

If you want something easy to handle, my advice is to get a Fuji 645 rangefinder.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Using an eyelevel finder is going to add quite a bit of weight, If you think the camera's heavy just weight.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yes, but that is just part of my fitness program. If I really want to add on the load I take my 30mm Fisheye lens and the 500mm lens which requires that I also take the tripod.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

I think John was referring to the RB67 eye-level finder, which, as we all know, is made from the armor of old Russian T-54 tanks.

 

[jvo]

welcome to photrio...

 

[GLS]

What will be the principle use of the camera? Some are much more versatile than others...

I own a Pentax 6x7, and it is very hand-holdable with the shorter focal lengths (say 165mm or below); I find the weight actually helps stabilise it. The horror stories of mirror slap are very exaggerated IMO. Having said that, I use my 501CM a lot more (having exchangeable backs is so useful).

 

[Sirius Glass]

What will be the principle use of the camera? Some are much more versatile than others...

I own a Pentax 6x7, and it is very hand-holdable with the shorter focal lengths (say 165mm or below); I find the weight actually helps stabilise it. The horror stories of mirror slap are very exaggerated IMO. Having said that, I use my 501CM a lot more (having exchangeable backs is so useful).

Camera slap comes from the misinformed and defective minds of RF photographers.

 

[Luckless]

Camera slap comes from the misinformed and defective minds of RF photographers.

That's a neat trick. Was that with or without mirror lockup, how well does it do on a tripod rather than a table, and how does a Pentax 6x7 fair trying the same trick?

 

[ignatiu5]

That's fair enough. I like my RB67 a lot but I just find that it's not very ergonomic. I thought about maybe just getting a prism finder and a good tripod but I've had it for a year and also thought it might be a good time to try some new equipment since I've gotten the hang of this.
A lot of people are suggesting trying out the prism finder first so I'd do that along with a tripod. Thank you!

I think Luckless' advice is the most sound, and I think trying the prism finder first makes the most sense. You have a camera with which you are already familiar, for which you already own the lens(es), backs etc. Adding a prism is the most economical and path-of-least-resistance option. If you find that you still don't like the way the RB handles, you can sell the prism and camera for what you paid; neither are likely to have depreciated in the time you've owned them.

As you've seen in this thread already, people can recommend an enormous range of MF cameras that work for their needs. They may or may not work for yours, so the more information about wants, likes, needs, etc. that you can provide, the greater chance you'll get suggestions that align with those needs. Do you want interchangeable backs? Do you need to be able to swap lenses? Are you more comfortable with rangefinders or SLRs? Price considerations? Repair parts availability? What are your priorities?

 

[Sirius Glass]

That's a neat trick. Was that with or without mirror lockup, how well does it do on a tripod rather than a table, and how does a Pentax 6x7 fair trying the same trick?

Without mirror lock up.

It does better on a tripod.

A Pentax 6x7 or a Bronica would do this very well. All the crap about mirror slap is from very jealous RF camera owners who cannot or will not step up to MF.

 

[Luckless]

Without mirror lock up.

It does better on a tripod.

A Pentax 6x7 or a Bronica would do this very well. All the crap about mirror slap is from very jealous RF camera owners who cannot or will not step up to MF.

I guess the engineers who added the mirror lockup to the Hasselblad were jealous fools who didn't know anything about photography then?

Not knocking over a coin is a neat trick, but hardly says anything all that useful about actually taking a photo... Given that we can actually measure differences between mirror lockup or not on various cameras.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I guess the engineers who added the mirror lockup to the Hasselblad were jealous fools who didn't know anything about photography then?

Not knocking over a coin is a neat trick, but hardly says anything all that useful about actually taking a photo... Given that we can actually measure differences between mirror lockup or not on various cameras.

Anecdotally, I'm a big believer in mirror lock up. But has someone actually done a series of tests that I could use to point it out to non-believers? I'm talking handheld, not on a table or tripod.

 

[Luckless]

Anecdotally, I'm a big believer in mirror lock up. But has someone actually done a series of tests that I could use to point it out to non-believers? I'm talking handheld, not on a table or tripod.

Googling "Mirror lockup test" seems to net plenty of people poking around such things.

I have a bunch of files somewhere from testing various focal lengths and shutter speeds with mirror lockup vs no lockup and a few different camera mounting schemes on a few digital camera bodies - Critical focus on a point light source. But nothing done on an older film camera. [I also don't actually own a film camera with a moving mirror right now. But I picked up a cheap film back for one a few weeks ago at a yard sale, so clearly I need to buy one to go with it at some point. That's how those things work, right? Finding a $5 film back is a good reason to spend more on the camera and lenses to go with it... Right?]

The difference wasn't huge, but it is enough to be worth using when you want the greatest level of clarity and detail if you have the time and equipment on hand.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I guess the engineers who added the mirror lockup to the Hasselblad were jealous fools who didn't know anything about photography then?

Not knocking over a coin is a neat trick, but hardly says anything all that useful about actually taking a photo... Given that we can actually measure differences between mirror lockup or not on various cameras.

I never said that. It is useful, but the stories about camera shake are apocryphal. Some even claim that mirror slap causes earthquakes.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

That Hasselblad penny test is flawed because there's no vibration over the lens. I did my own test with a penny closer to the film plane. I'm happy to report that the penny did not fall:



I did not pre-release the mirror and baffles; when I pressed the cable release, the full mirror-shutter-baffle cycle completed.

 

[Sirius Glass]

That Hasselblad penny test is flawed because there's no vibration over the lens. I did my own test with a penny closer to the film plane. I'm happy to report that the penny did not fall:

View attachment 227011 View attachment 227012

I did not pre-release the mirror and baffles; when I pressed the cable release, the full mirror-shutter-baffle cycle completed.

I never tried it with a flawed penny or even a cent or pence.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I still won't believe it until I see a handheld test. Or maybe we could suspend a camera in a hammock and see how much it moves!

 

[warden]

That Hasselblad penny test is flawed because there's no vibration over the lens. I did my own test with a penny closer to the film plane. I'm happy to report that the penny did not fall:
I did not pre-release the mirror and baffles; when I pressed the cable release, the full mirror-shutter-baffle cycle completed.

I tried it with mine too, just now. The penny falls every time. (I don't care one way or another, btw, because I didn't buy the camera to balance pennies in the first place.)

I use my penny dropping Hassy at 1/focal length or faster speeds hand held and the pictures I can make with it are plenty sharp enough for my satisfaction. For any sort of low light work I use a tripod or switch to a camera without a mirror.

My issue with the Hassy system isn't the vibration, it's the noise it makes. It's a good, satisfying mechanical noise, but sometimes too loud for me.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

I tried it with mine too, just now. The penny falls every time.
...

Time for CLA.



Mine fell the first time, but OK thereafter. No, I did not put glue on the penny.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I never said that. It is useful, but the stories about camera shake are apocryphal. Some even claim that mirror slap causes earthquakes.

The way you moan so loudly about Hasselblad, it sure does seem that the earth moves whenever you get that 'oh so smooth yet hard' mirror slap. You like that slap, eh? You want another slap? Go on, ask for it. You know you want it....

You might evaluate if you've crossed the line from philia to eros in your relationship to your camera.

 

[Luckless]

This thread reminded me of a fun game from when I was a kid. We would take a coin or a kini, stand it on edge on a board, then hit the board with a hammer to make it jump but not fall over.

So, whether or not a penny will stay standing doesn't really tell much of anything compared to something like the size and shape of a pin-point of light on film...

 

[warden]

Time for CLA.


Mine fell the first time, but OK thereafter. No, I did not put glue on the penny.

It is due for a CLA, but not because of a silly penny! The negatives are great and I'm happy with how the camera is performing, but when I'm done with the current project I'll send the whole kit out for regular maintenance.