I'm Curious - T grain verses conventional Grain clearing time

Photo Engineer · Aug 16, 2010

Also sprach Zarathustra! Hmmm.

See here to see some examples in the open literature. I can only say that higher resolution is obtained as noted in the first article.

Dead Link Removed

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=c5e77fcf122522d4b8dcb475109fedea

We strive for quality imaging not quantity!

PE

Q.G. · Aug 16, 2010

I know EM imaging.
Too much work and not needed for SEM imaging!

brucemuir · Aug 16, 2010

Awesome Tim hahaha

Photo Engineer · Aug 16, 2010

Q.G. said:
I know EM imaging.
Too much work and not needed for SEM imaging!

See the references. Often used in both for ultra high resolution. This is very often needed when making an emulsion, or when sensitizing one. But then, maybe you know emulsion making as well.

PE

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

2F/2F said:
Funny you should mention that. Coke fits right in with my little paragraph of teases. The word "Coke" to mean "cola of any kind" is a very common usage in certain parts of the U.S.A., such as the south. Everything is "a Coke," whether it is Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Mountain Dew, etc.

E.g.

Person 1: Would you like anything to drink, honey?
Person 2: Yeah, baby; gimme a Coke, please.
Person 1: What kind?
Person 2: A Diet Dr. Pepper, please.

Exactly my point.

There is a lot of Coke (tabular grain), but there is only one Coca-Cola (T-Grain)!

Photo Engineer · Aug 16, 2010

The problem is, which is which?

There are so many claims to both Tabular grain and T-Grain it boggles ones mind!

And it is mainly hype just as in Colas. Colas are colas, made with the same basic ingredients with tiny tweaks. (RC is a cola, Dr. Pepper is not)

PE

Q.G. · Aug 16, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
See the references. Often used in both for ultra high resolution. This is very often needed when making an emulsion, or when sensitizing one. But then, maybe you know emulsion making as well.

Unlike some, i would never claim to know everything...

2F/2F · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
Exactly my point.

There is a lot of Coke (tabular grain), but there is only one Coca-Cola (T-Grain)!

That is not your point at all. Your point applied to this case would mean that those who use the term Coke generically to mean cola ought not do so.

However, it is simply regional shorthand, not something deserving of a slap on the wrist.

...and the case for "t-grained" is immensely more clear than Coke, Xerox, Hoover, or Thrifty, since it actually describes a physical characteristic that all of these films share, and is not just a snazzy brand name. I can see you getting worked up about it if Kodak had named it something like "Special Maxi-Tab Emulsion" or some such junk, and everyone came to call this style of emulsion Maxi-Tab emulsions...but Kodak did not. They named it the abbreviation for "tabular-grained."

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
... Colas are colas, made with the same basic ingredients with tiny tweaks. ...

And beer is beer, right?

Q.G. · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
And beer is beer, right?

Exactly.
Unless you think making a distinction between types of beer is an absolute must to be able to use the term "beer" to indicate something that is not lemonade, or wine, or tea, or any other thing that is not beer (and which can itself be seperated in types of lemonade, wine, tea, etc.)

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

2F/2F said:
That is not your point at all. ...

I decide what's my point, not you!

2F/2F · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
I decide what's my point, not you!

...and you'll be wrong when you state your point sometimes, as you were when I corrected you.

Your main point all along was about what terminology should be used, not what trademarks belong to whom. What trademarks belong to whom was simply evidence that you used to bolster your point about how we ought to refer to tabular-grained films.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

Beer and Coke are overall terms, so is tabular grain. Miller, Pepsi and T-Grain are the finer point of things. Not to difficult, really.

2F/2F · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
Beer and Coke are overall terms, so is tabular grain. Miller, Pepsi and T-Grain are the finer point of things. Not to difficult, really.

So, now Coke is an "overall term" and Pepsi is a "finer point?"

OK...

Makes me feel good to know that I have always preferred the "finer point" in this case!

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

2F/2F said:
...and you'll be wrong when you state your point sometimes, as you were when I corrected you.

Your main point all along was about what terminology should be used, not what trademarks belong to whom. What trademarks belong to whom was simply evidence that you used to bolster your point about how we ought to refer to tabular-grained films.

Unbelievable!

erikg · Aug 16, 2010

brucemuir said:
It's an honorary post so no worries

You get to attend the opening of new boxes of film.

2F/2F · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
Unbelievable!

...and very correct.

Q.G. · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
I decide what's my point, not you!

Yes, you do. But not in just your latest posts do you put your point across.

The term was used generically, to indicate a tabular grain film. To which you replied that Delta is not T-Max, which you then went on to explain as meaning that we mustn't confuse protected trade names.
The original post however never implied that Ilford uses Kodak tradenames, just that it is a film of similar grain structure.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

2F/2F said:
...and very correct.

Nothing new there!

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

Q.G. said:
Yes, you do. But not in just your latest posts do you put your point across.

The term was used generically, to indicate a tabular grain film. To which you replied that Delta is not T-Max, which you then went on to explain as meaning that we mustn't confuse protected trade names.
The original post however never implied that Ilford uses Kodak tradenames, just that it is a film of similar grain structure.

I never said that.

For the third time, I said:

'Delta is not T-grain'

and again, it ain't!

Photo Engineer · Aug 16, 2010

Is Stout beer? Is Bock beer? Is Porter beer?

PE

RalphLambrecht · Aug 16, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
Is Stout beer? Is Bock beer? Is Porter beer?

PE

Ron

There are only two types of beer: good beer and better beer!

lxdude · Aug 16, 2010

Well, as I stated, I say tabular grain. I know usually from context when T-grain is being used generically, but why add possible confusion by using the term? If someone says T-grain I think Kodak.

We could all use "Nikon" to mean 35mm SLR, but would it be better?

Kirk Keyes · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
I never said that.

For the third time, I said:

'Delta is not T-grain'

and again, it ain't!

So are you saying the Delta is an epitaxial grain, and therefore not a t-grain? If so, you're missing the point PE made, which is also shown in the link to Ilford's page on silver halide crystals given earlier, that the epitaxial grains that Ilford uses are built on tabular grains.

Thus they are epitaxial and t-grain at the same time.

Q.G. · Aug 16, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
I never said that.

For the third time, I said:

'Delta is not T-grain'

and again, it ain't!

That's what i wrote, isn't it?

Noone ever implied that Delta was "T-Grain", i.e. (according to your protestations and explanations) Kodak's T-Max.
Just that it was a similar sort of film. Which it is.

I'm Curious - T grain verses conventional Grain clearing time

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