I'm a Street Photographer, Not a Pervert . . .

Mark Feldstein · Jul 7, 2013

NOW we're presented with a new conundrum. The pigeon in that photo noted by Ming Rider above, happens to be a member of WPPPA. Yep, The World Professional Photographed Pigeons Association. A pigeon's union. If our urban-parked vehicles and black camera bags start looking like someone has been squeezing our fine feathered friends on them, we'll know why.

Frankly, I don't know where this might all stop. Pigeons have rights, next sea gulls, sea otters, the Marine Mammal Protection Act will be amended to include photographic licensing and individual releases for seals, sea lions, whales, otters. DOGS !!! A dog will be required to indicate consent through it's owner/agent before being photographed. I believe this may occur sooner than 20 years.

ASMP may soon be recruiting people who have "Whale-Speak" ability to negotiate with them for an exclusive right to photograph them. This is truly an outrage. And to think I used to be a member of ASMP., NPPA and SPCA. I fear the end is near but I pray I'm wrong.

I'm afraid we may be forced back into the dark ages to live again in our darkened studios beneath the focusing cloths, hiding in shame and humiliation with deep regret, never being able to take another photograph in a public place again. <sigh>

What's next? [That's a rhetorical question btw]

lxdude · Jul 7, 2013

wwilliams said:
Do you really believe it is ok for an adult to interact with a child without gaining parental permission first? Are you a parent?

He did not interact with the kid. He took a picture of a child who was jumping over the back of a bench between old people on the bench, drawing attention to himself.
If a parent yelled at me for taking a picture of their kid jumping over a bench repeatedly, I would say that parent has a distorted view of what is acceptable behavior in adults, hers as much as mine.
And perhaps also what is acceptable behavior in children. More even than children who are unruly, children who are allowed to give others the finger.

What does it mean to "interact"? Is watching a child jumping over a bench considered interacting? Are we to keep our eyes averted now, for fear of causing alarm? If a ball rolls to us, are we not to pick it up and toss it back or hand it to the child? If we are walking along, and children pass by, are we not to say hello or even nod?
Are we to constantly fear the wrath and judgment of others if we so much as glance at kids without their protectors' permission? There must be a limit somewhere. A person following children around with a camera is not comparable to someone sitting on a bench taking pictures of a child romping, as the OP was doing.

BrianShaw · Jul 7, 2013

Mark Feldstein said:
What's next? [That's a rhetorical question btw]

Not long ago I was at a public park and someone nearby had a really nice Weimaraner. I pointed my camera at it and the owner said to me, politely but firmly... "I try to protect the identity of my dog so I charge $5 per shot." so I said, "OK" and lowered my camera. The guy said that he was just kidding but I repeated myself. Then the begging started... "Why, o why, won't you photograph my dog?"

lxdude · Jul 7, 2013

Prof_Pixel said:
Re: I'm a Street Photographer, Not a Pervert . . .

People always have to consider the old saying: "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands."
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/douglasada136658.html#W6wJjWS1PMHvmBex.99

Then the presumption is, "Looks like a legitimate photographer, acts like a legitimate photographer..."

Prof_Pixel · Jul 7, 2013

lxdude said:
Then the presumption is, "Looks like a legitimate photographer, acts like a legitimate photographer..."

The given description was "My attire today was brown walking boots, dark blue jeans and a black 'Motorhead' tour T-Shirt." Is that how a "legitimate photographer" dresses? Different folks will feel differently about this 'look'.

... and would a "legitimate photographer" take relatively close up photos of a child without asking the parent?

removed account4 · Jul 7, 2013

Iluvmycam said:
Sure, this is part of the success of street. Don't get too crazy and dnagerous for just one shot. Just move or or wait. Another shot will come up in short order. Don't kill yourself over any one shot.

hi there,
i'm well aware what street photography is, and i have worked as a photojournalist in a past life ...
( and have done some sort of documentary work for about 32 years )
sorry, the OP said he continued to photograph after he was basically told to stop,
not one shot + wait for another, but he took handfulls --- he hounded them ...
people who act like jerks get what they deserve. sorry ...

lxdude · Jul 7, 2013

Prof_Pixel said:
The given description was "My attire today was brown walking boots, dark blue jeans and a black 'Motorhead' tour T-Shirt." Is that how a "legitimate photographer" dresses? Different folks will feel differently about this 'look'.

Is that how a pervert dresses?

... and would a "legitimate photographer" take relatively close up photos of a child without asking the parent?

Cartier-Bresson was not legitimate?

lxdude · Jul 7, 2013

jnanian said:
sorry, the OP said he continued to photograph after he was basically told to stop,
not one shot + wait for another, but he took handfulls --- he hounded them ...
people who are jerks get what they deserve. sorry ...

Read it again, John.
He "made three attempts and gave up." Then, "Five minutes went by, then they got up to leave." It was only at that point that she addressed him. Which she did by shouting at him, calling him a "sick pervert". What hounding?

Tom1956 · Jul 7, 2013

Speaking for myself, I have lost any interest for any kind of "street photography"; nevermind the legal ramifications. Referring to the photo attachment of post #76, this is how people everywhere seem to dress and look these days. Complete and total human eyesores, I would have no interest whatsoever at pointing my eyeballs at them, let alone a camera with film I had paid good money for. Times have changed and in the department of people-watching, it's purely depressing. (no offense to the writer of the referenced post).
In closing, I wish people would stop going out in public wearing rags I wouldn't sleep in, much less leave the house.

jjphoto · Jul 8, 2013

I got sick of it ages ago and made my own T-shirts:

http://www.redbubble.com/people/jjphoto/works/6053298-terrorist-photographer-1-white

http://www.redbubble.com/people/jjphoto/works/6053286-terrorist-photographer-2-black

StoneNYC · Jul 8, 2013

I only read the first two pages or so,

But there was a short period of time I worked for Cirque Du Soleil as one of those guys that snaps pictures of people who arrive and then someone tries to sell them the pictures later.

I did this for about 3 months.

One time, this lady had a kid, and you could tell he was hesitant about getting his picture taken, so I waited till he wasn't looking and snapped a shot, he then noticed and started crying, the lady started screaming at me "he doesn't like his picture taken and now he's crying your ruined our whole night blah blah blah..." Really reamed me out... The thing is, she saw me with the camera, knew I worked there (being in the outfit and having a giant name tag) and saw me watching to take the picture and never said anything till I had taken the shot.

People will always need an excuse to freak out and yell about something, you can't let it get to you.

It would be creepier if you had been shooting with your cell phone...

I'm kind of a pest though, if she had started yelling in my face I would have been like "oh wait hold on let me focus, I want to catch this real life moment of anger and craziness..." Ad started aiming my camera at her hahaha.

You have to keep a good sense of humor in these situations.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

mr rusty · Jul 8, 2013

Yep, one and the same

Ha! Well, if you will go to Preston................ It's my nearest town but we always go up to Lancaster - much nicer, or occasionally across to Southport. Re taking street photos. I'd defend your right loudly, but you have bigger cojones than me to do street of kids in the middle of town these days! I've seen many great kid photos when walking around with my camera, but passed every one. Shame.

Felinik · Jul 8, 2013

A more suitable reply to the upset woman would've been: "Oh I'm truly sorry if you think I'm some kind of pervert, I'm a photographer and I'm doing a documentation about the people on the streets in this town, here take my card, drop me an email or call me and I'll send you a cpl of prints for free."

Normally this is what I do if someone objects after I've captured them (rare though...) and so far no unhappy faces after that, instead nice conversations about the town, about photography, bla bla etc.

Good luck m8!!

Ming Rider · Jul 8, 2013

jnanian said:
hi there,
i'm well aware what street photography is, and i have worked as a photojournalist in a past life ...
( and have done some sort of documentary work for about 32 years )
sorry, the OP said he continued to photograph after he was basically told to stop,
not one shot + wait for another, but he took handfulls --- he hounded them ...
people who act like jerks get what they deserve. sorry ...

A journalist you say?

darkosaric · Jul 8, 2013

Tom1956 said:
Referring to the photo attachment of post #76, this is how people everywhere seem to dress and look these days. Complete and total human eyesores, I would have no interest whatsoever at pointing my eyeballs at them, let alone a camera with film I had paid good money for. Times have changed and in the department of people-watching, it's purely depressing. (no offense to the writer of the referenced post).
In closing, I wish people would stop going out in public wearing rags I wouldn't sleep in, much less leave the house.

I must agree with this statement. I find out that in some parts of the world I just don't enjoy street photography as much as I enjoy in another parts because (between other stuff) of people clothings and style.

Ming Rider · Jul 8, 2013

Maybe others have found this, but when you click on the first link of post #76, I get a warning from google saying the content of the blog may only be suitable for adults and an option to continue or not.

Surely this can't be because it contains a picture with a (barely visible) child in it ??

removed account4 · Jul 8, 2013

lxdude said:
Read it again, John.
He "made three attempts and gave up." Then, "Five minutes went by, then they got up to leave." It was only at that point that she addressed him. Which she did by shouting at him, calling him a "sick pervert". What hounding?

perhaps if you were in her family's shoes ...
lets see ...

sitting across from you is a guy with a camera to his face for 5+ minutes
who bothered your parents first ( who scolded him ) ..

and for 5 mins ( which seems like an eternity ) he is staring at you and your kids
was taking photos ...

i am sure it looked like he wouldn't leave them alone.
from the lady and her parents' point of view he hounded them

Ming Rider said:
A journalist you say?

yup

sorry ming rider, that family's gathering wasn't newsworthy
if it was, it would be a totally different story ...

MartinCrabtree · Jul 8, 2013

Just a comment.............I do not like my picture being taken. So when someone points a camera my way I just wag my finger and mouth the word "no". Works just fine. No drama needed.

Ming Rider · Jul 8, 2013

MartinCrabtree said:
Just a comment.............I do not like my picture being taken. So when someone points a camera my way I just wag my finger and mouth the word "no". Works just fine. No drama needed.

Even that would make a good picture.

Ming Rider · Jul 8, 2013

jnanian said:
yup

sorry ming rider, that family's gathering wasn't newsworthy
if it was, it would be a totally different story ...

Sorry couldn't help myself there.

What I was getting at was that you are a journo' but you completely mis-quoted my original post.

Not something I would usually associate with journalism.

Toffle · Jul 8, 2013

Ming Rider said:
Originally Posted by MartinCrabtree (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Just a comment.............I do not like my picture being taken. So when someone points a camera my way I just wag my finger and mouth the word "no". Works just fine. No drama needed.

Even that would make a good picture.

I hope you are joking.

I must be getting old, but I am still of the school that believes good manners and consideration trump our "right" to stick a camera where it is not welcome.

Ming Rider · Jul 8, 2013

Toffle said:
I hope you are joking.

I must be getting old, but I am still of the school that believes good manners and consideration trump our "right" to stick a camera where it is not welcome.

Some of the best photo's have consisted of people displeased with the camera.

viridari · Jul 8, 2013

Imagine if Weegee had been respectful of the desires of others to not be photographed.

Toffle · Jul 8, 2013

viridari said:
Imagine if Weegee had been respectful of the desires of others to not be photographed.

Imagine if context had any meaning on APUG.

lxdude · Jul 8, 2013

jnanian said:
perhaps if you were in her family's shoes ...
lets see ...

sitting across from you is a guy with a camera to his face for 5+ minutes
who bothered your parents first ( who scolded him ) ..[

WHERE in that post did it say that her parents were there? WHERE did it say anyone else scolded him? And WHERE is there even an indication that he "bothered" anyone else?

and for 5 mins ( which seems like an eternity ) he is staring at you and your kids
was taking photos ...

i am sure it looked like he wouldn't leave them alone.
from the lady and her parents' point of view he hounded them

If your kid is jumping around, people are going to look at him. He has drawn their attention. And if they look at him jumping around, they just might take pictures of his antics. The woman overreacted.
The OP was seated on a bench, while things happened around him, which he photographed. If he cannot do that, then Cartier-Bresson, Robert Frank, Garry Winogrand, and so many others, were wrong to photograph what went on around them.
Have you seen the video of HCB stalking his subjects, surreptitiously and quickly getting a photo before they knew what was going on? Geez, what a creep!

I'm a Street Photographer, Not a Pervert . . .

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