I'm a Street Photographer, Not a Pervert . . .

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wwilliams

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Ming
To believe that parental concern about the safety of their children is misplaced and an invention of gutter media is amazingly self-delusional. People of all political stripes like to blame the media for our problems, like our inability to exercise our rights as an artist, but media reflects public sentiment as often as it creates it and probably more. Do you really believe it is ok for an adult to interact with a child without gaining parental permission first? Are you a parent?
 
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. . .

. . .Five minutes went by, then they got up to leave. Next thing I know, she's shouting "you're a sick pervert for photographing my kids" and that she was going to call the police. I remained calm and assured her that I wasn't a pervert, that 'perverts' don't use 1500 quid Leica kit and that I would stay here and wait for the police to arrive. She repeated that I was a pervert and that she was going to call the police. She left with her ill-fated children, one of them giving me the finger.

I'm a bit hesitant to say this but I think this problem originates from two sources. First, the media, of which I used to be an active, tends to instill panic in parents rather than simply caution and situational awareness. The other equally troubling contributor, IMHO, is simply the internet. When did people stop really communicating with each other and bunkering in?

Years ago, as a street photographer in Chicago, people were much different, more open, more receptive, curious and seemingly more interested in meeting their neighbors and fellow urban residents. Now it's different. People are suspicious, distrustful, tending to stereotype news clips to the general population, and shy. We didn't have to snipe from a distance with long lenses. Years ago, we asked people for permission to photograph them because they seemed interesting subjects. We introduced ourselves. We told them we felt that what we were doing was important and that we would appreciate it if they would allow us (me) to let them become a part of my project. Most were flattered to stop for a minute and allow their image to be captured on film. I enjoyed talking to them during and afterwards. Finding out about them. Even after I took a shot without first asking consent, more often than not, I went up to them afterwards, told them what I was doing and even asked them to sign a release and offered to send them a print or two of their photograph. Imagine that. People were receptive to that.

Sadly, I think you were a victim of urban hysteria; of a mother who has serious social phobias and paranoia issues and in this case, unfounded but genuine fears. Even sadder is that the sins of the mother are visited upon the children, like the kid who gave you the finger while he was walking away. What sort of person will that kid be when/if he grows up? Look at how he deals with strangers? His mom or whomever she is, is teaching him how to be disrespectful and rude. Nice. Soon to be appearing in the next generation. It's a shame. Can you disarm that? I don't know. Is it worthwhile incorporating a disarming sense of mutual humanity into your photographic repertoire and paying it forward? Probably if you haven't done so already.

My suggestion to you is keep on doing what you're doing but try to be a little more receptive to talking to your subjects before and after you photograph them and as someone else said here earlier, "Blow it off". No harm no foul. Certainly not everyone is like these people you ran into.
Take it light ;>)
Mark
 

Prof_Pixel

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Rights play both ways: you may have a right to photograph in public, but people have a right not to be photographed in a way that violates their personal space.

Taking casual photos of people in general on the street is probably OK; sitting across from someone and taking (or attempting) to take several photos of their child at close range - without talking to the person first and asking permission - is in bad taste. If someone I didn't know was attempting to take photos of me under similar circumstances, I'd tell the photographer to F-off!
 
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BrianShaw

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Rights play both ways: you may have a right to photograph in public, but people have a right not to be photographed in way that violates their personal space.

Taking casual photos of people in general on the street is probably OK; sitting across from someone and taking (or attempting) to take several photos of their child at close range - without talking to the person first and asking permission - is in bad taste. If someone I didn't know was attempting to take photos of me under similar circumstances, I'd tell the photographer to F-off!

Absolutely correct. This is where respect and human decency becomes somewhat conflicted with the letter of the law.
 

pdeeh

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a mother who has serious social phobias and paranoia issues
...

there seems to be a bit of a vogue at the moment on camera forums to diagnose people as having drug and/or alcohol and/or mental health problems purely on the basis that they object to having their photographs taken without first being asked.

What Ming Rider experienced is really quite unpleasant - as his reaction testifies - but none of us are in a position to make moral (or pseudo-medical) judgments about the person who inflicted it on him. We have no idea what provoked her reaction.
 
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"What Ming Rider experienced is really quite unpleasant - as his reaction testifies - but none of us are in a position to make moral (or pseudo-medical) judgments about the person who inflicted it on him. We have no idea what provoked her reaction."

Suffice it to say, based on the circumstances and her reactions by calling him a "pervert" it's pretty logical to assume it was fear-based misconception that could have been disarmed by talking to her first before photographing her kids. One really doesn't need to go beyond that analysis to reach the conclusion I did. In other words, it's common sense.
 

pdeeh

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I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't follow logically that calling someone a pervert implies that they have "serious social phobias and paranoia issues" and nor does it follow from an application of "common sense"
 
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I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't follow logically that calling someone a pervert implies that they have "serious social phobias and paranoia issues" and nor does it follow from an application of "common sense"

[Ohhhh nooooooooo ! Not this again] :laugh:

So, is that simply your unsubstantiated opinion or are you claiming it as unfactual insight? Rather than a knee-jerk response, think about what I wrote above for awhile, then get back to me.
 
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Ming Rider

Ming Rider

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In an attempt to gain some clarity of the situation and to dampen the unease in this thread, I asked a favour of a friend and as a result, was able to take a brief glimpse into the future of Street and Public Photography.

Unfortunately, Tapatalk wouldn't let me upload the picture from my iPhone, but you can read the whole sordid story with exclusive photograph on my blog here:-

http://www.streetphotographyblog.co.uk/the-possible-future-of-street-photography/
 
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jjphoto

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. . . the oldest and most honourable form of photography in existence.
...

No, far from it. There was no street photography with Daguerreotype and Calotype (Fox Talbot) photography. Wet plate street photography neither, except with ghost like images where the people passed the long exposure. Dry Gelatine plates in the 1870's started to allow this kind of thing but it really wasn't a thing until gelatine films (1880's) and more portable and/or miniature cameras.

Aside form that I concur with your sentiment and feel your pain.
 

removed account4

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sorry for your troubles ..
but if someone gives you dirty looks
and doesn't want you photographing them
shouldn't you well .. be respectful of their wishes ?

if it was my parents, and i showed up with my kids
and you continued to photograph when you were given
"the look to leave us alone" i'd be kind of pissed off too ..


i don't really care how olde or primal or whatever
street photography is, or that you are using an expensive camera
when someone suggests or tells you not to
and you continue, you pretty much deserve what you get ...
 
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Noble

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Well, as a street photog in the style of Bresson we don't ask - we shoot. Sure, sometimes we all ask for a shot. But if we can, the dedicated ones try to work candid.

That is your choice. I wasn't trying to command anyone to shoot in any particular way. What I was commenting on is if you want to stalk and photograph a stranger's children without so much as a hello or introduction you have to expect that eventually you will run into someone who objects. And given enough time you will come across someone who objects in an inappropriate way. It is just hyperbolic to claim such a situation is illustrative of some kind of downward spiral of urban society and that it makes you physically ill. Play the game any way you want but when you throw snake eyes don't complain.

I shoot suriptiously sometimes. I don't do it with children. But I know if I am caught someone might object. That's just part of the game.
 

Steve Smith

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You need a business card when this happens which you can hand to such a person and tell them that they can download the picture for their album. It helps if you actually are licensed.

Licenced for what?


Steve.
 

Prof_Pixel

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Don't know if that is true. (US) You can say f off or get in a fight. But the photographer right to shoot is higher than your right to refuse. (at least that is my understanding. correct me if i am wrong.)

Unless you are famous, you have some rights to privacy. People just can't just "stick a camera in your face". You can shoot the street, but "zooming in' on an individual is risky.
 

Matthew Wagg

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Next thing I know, she's shouting "you're a sick pervert for photographing my kids" and that she was going to call the police.

I've had that countless times while doing street photography. I think its nice to know I'm at least getting some kind of reaction to my work :tongue:
This Photo21_18-3.jpg delightful creature screamed at me for taking her photo and calling me a perve. Cause obviously I get my jollies by looking at women drinking coffee :wink:
 

wwilliams

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Since we so easily conflate what is morally right with what is legal - a question. Is it true that I can take a photo of anything as long as I am on public property and use it for any purpose I wish but I can only take a picture of another person, anywhere, if I don't use it for commercial use (or get model release)? Can I sell a photo of another person without a model release as a work of art? I do believe one exception is that I can take a photo of a "public" person with impunity and use it for commercial use if I wish. Just checking what our society officially "approves" of. Any lawyers out there?
 
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Ming Rider

Ming Rider

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I've had that countless times while doing street photography. I think its nice to know I'm at least getting some kind of reaction to my work :tongue:
This View attachment 71218 delightful creature screamed at me for taking her photo and calling me a perve. Cause obviously I get my jollies by looking at women drinking coffee :wink:

Pictures of Women drinking coffee is what gets me going. :wink: :D Pheww, is it hot in here or is it just me?

I wonder if her t-shirt says Wench?
 

Noble

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I've had that countless times while doing street photography. I think its nice to know I'm at least getting some kind of reaction to my work :tongue:
This View attachment 71218 delightful creature screamed at me for taking her photo and calling me a perve. Cause obviously I get my jollies by looking at women drinking coffee :wink:


Makes sense to me. I am not a woman but I've dated plenty of attractive girls and you wouldn't believe the volume and nature of sexual advances they have to fend off constantly. I don't whistle at women or make cat calls but there are a lot of guys apparently that do and do much worse. Women particularly if they are semi attractive and or young live in a different world. I wouldn't be too quick to make fun of them when they obsess about "pervs."

Again, if you play the game don't come on the internet complaining about rolling snake eyes. And bringing it back to the OP and the "good ol' days" vs modern society I remeber a time when a gentleman would ask a lady before taking her picture.
 
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Ming Rider

Ming Rider

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Makes sense to me. I am not a woman but I've dated plenty of attractive girls and you wouldn't believe the volume and nature of sexual advances they have to fend off constantly. I don't whistle at women or make cat calls but there are a lot of guys apparently that do and do much worse. Women particularly if they are semi attractive and or young live in a different world. I wouldn't be too quick to make fun of them when they obsess about "pervs."

Again, if you play the game don't come on the internet complaining about rolling snake eyes. And bringing it back to the OP and the "good ol' days" vs modern society I remeber a time when a gentleman would ask a lady before taking her picture.

Please, nobody take this the wrong way. It is just a simple observation of fact :-

Female (or male) attraction is just an inescapable part of our inner animal that we, by calling ourselves human, have attempted to sweep under the carpet.

No amount of etiquet or social conditioning will remove this basic drive that is in all of us.

Being attracted to a passing female/male is nothing more than being the male/female of our species.
 

Noble

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Please, nobody take this the wrong way. It is just a simple observation of fact :-

Female (or male) attraction is just an inescapable part of our inner animal that we, by calling ourselves human, have attempted to sweep under the carpet.

No amount of etiquet or social conditioning will remove this basic drive that is in all of us.

Being attracted to a passing female/male is nothing more than being the male/female of our species.

This is an unexpected response from someone who laments the decay of society allegedly caused by the "gutter media." There needs to be a certain level of personal responsibility and also a modicum of understanding for the ladies.

I feel bad about your experience. But you have to understand it is not all together unexpected nor is it something to get really upset over. Next time just ask or make sure they can't see you taking the picture. That's my advice anyway. Lighten up. It's not like you killed someone or someone charged you with a crime. I'm sure you will have many more years of fun street photography.
 

Wyno

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Here in Australia, we're not allowed to take pictures of our own children at sporting events theat they are in, because someone else's child may be in it. It's a very sick world.
 

Tom1956

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Here in Australia, we're not allowed to take pictures of our own children at sporting events theat they are in, because someone else's child may be in it. It's a very sick world.

Take them anyway.If you try to obey every law the progressives make, you'd be a house plant.
 
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