Ilford XP2 in FPP's c-41 / ECN-2 vs ?????

[John Wiegerink]

I didn't really know for sure where to post this question, but thought I'd try here. If I'm in the wrong pew please move me to the right one. Anyways here's the question. I'd like to use Ilford XP2 120 respooled to 620 in one of my favorite old roll film cameras as a Sunny-16 walk-about-camera. I need a good, cheap developer that will let me use ICE on my Nikon LS8000 scanner. FPP's (Film Photography Project, Inc.) c-41/ECN-2 kit has caught my eye and was wondering if anyone has experience with it and XP2. I haven't home processed XP2 since it was XP1 when Ilford offered its XP1 special C-41 kit. I used to get excellent results with that combo and would like to once again. I know many folks here used a B&W developer and seem to like it, but for my ICE scanning I am stuck with going the C-41 route.

 

[MattKing]

This question straddles at least two "pews", so I don't think you need worry about it being misplaced .

 

[AnselMortensen]

Have you considered processing the XP-2 in standard B/W chemicals?
The Massive Chart has info for it.
I've done it and gotten excellent results.

 

[MattKing]

I believe the OP is seeking to be able to use ICE while scanning.
Standard B/W chemicals mean silver left in the film, and therefore no ICE (as it were )

 

[John Wiegerink]

This question straddles at least two "pews", so I don't think you need worry about it being misplaced .

Thanks Matt! I knew I had the right church, but wasn't sure which pew. Yes, you are right about not being able to use ICE with my scanner if I were to use B&W chemistry. So the reason for searching out C-41 chemistry to use with the XP2 Super film.

 

[Oldwino]

I’ve used the FPP chemistry for some of my c-41 films, including some rolls of XP2. I haven’t noticed any difference compared to other C-41 chemistry I’ve tried with that film.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I’ve used the FPP chemistry for some of my c-41 films, including some rolls of XP2. I haven’t noticed any difference compared to other C-41 chemistry I’ve tried with that film.

Sounds good! I'll have to buy myself a Christmas gift and give it a try. I read FPP writeup on the kit and it sounds fairly simple to use.

 

[koraks]

FPP's (Film Photography Project, Inc.) c-41/ECN-2 kit

I'm sure it'll work, of sorts. I'm not thrilled about this kit, however.

One potential issue is that this kit relies on a very rudimentary (but cheap) form of bleach, i.e. a ferricyanide bleach. We don't know what this means in terms of dye stability and thus how it would affect the archival properties of the negatives.

In a similar vein, the FPP kit is really more of an ECN2 than a C41 developer. This means that the dyes formed will be different than the ones the film was engineered to. The implications are that the gamma may be off from official specs and again, long-term dye stability may be affected.

Of course, a B&W film is less sensitive to such issues than color; so what if you lose a little density over the years - at least you don't have to worry much about color balance, especially if you're scanning anyway. So decide for yourself if this is something you would even want to worry about.

Btw, I'm puzzled by the mention of particulate matter floating around in this developer upon mixing. I've mixed a good deal of photochemistry, including color chemistry, and I've never had anything like this happening. I'm also put off a bit by a mention on a blog they link to on their own website that states that the "developer in the original kit was designed for color C-41". Given that they use CD3, they must have known that they were not actually making a C41 developer, and they must have (I hope...) figured out that they needed to either boost the pH of the developer considerably to make it similarly active to a CD4-based developer, or perhaps they recommend extended development time to reach the same gamma on C41 films.

All taken together this will undoubtedly work, but personally, I'd not bother with this kind of kit and just get some real C41 chemistry. Pretty much the only thing this kit has going for it is its price, and even that is hardly competitive if you compare it with just mixing something similar together with chemicals easily purchased from e.g. Artcraft or eBay (which, let's face it, is basically what FPP are doing anyway).

Apologies for the sour undertone in this message, but I'm starting to get a little weary of the present offering of color chemistry that purports to be something it really isn't; i.e. confounding ECN2 and C41 developers, using bleaches that were never qualified for C41 film etc. It's all fine if they were transparent about the pros and cons of such an approach, and by all means take whatever liberty you want, but the suggestion that it all doesn't matter...pah. I see lot sof sub-par results (mostly color) that are at least partly attributable to the use of these compromised, cut-corner kits. Including on the FPP blog cited above; the ProImage example they posted there is pretty horrible color-wise and a large part of that is actually due to the developer not being the correct one for C41 film.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Actually, I feel the same way about companies saying things that are absolutely false or at least totally misleading. It also upsets me about all these "so called" film companies that are springing up and advertising a new, super film when we all or some of us anyway, know it's someone else's product with just a new label stuck on it. In the case of this developer I thought it might work okay for something like XP2, which had no color dyes.
As for buying the raw chemicals and mixing my own C-41 developer? I mix all my own B&W developers so I guess mixing my own C-41 developer wouldn't be a bad idea. I was just going to take a fast, easy way out by purchasing this kit. I guess shortcuts can be a little bumpy and not worth the risk sometimes.

 

[koraks]

Yes, I'm not too worried about how the B&W XP2 will come out of that chemistry. I was/am just being a bit sour about what I also believe is somewhat misleading or at least very incomplete information being offered by some manufacturers.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Yes, I'm not too worried about how the B&W XP2 will come out of that chemistry. I was/am just being a bit sour about what I also believe is somewhat misleading or at least very incomplete information being offered by some manufacturers.

I guess it boils down to "buyer beware"! I watched an advertisement on TV of a battery powered shaver for men made by Bell & Howell. It will shave even underwater!!! I'd be willing to bet it's not made by the folks that made some of the best audio-visual equipment we knew of in the old days. Far too much of using defunct trademark names on pieces of junk to make you feel like you're not buying a piece of junk.
I still might just try this ECN-2/C-41 kit to see how it works, since I won't be shooting XP2 Super all the time and the small kit might work out better.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I believe the OP is seeking to be able to use ICE while scanning.
Standard B/W chemicals mean silver left in the film, and therefore no ICE (as it were )

Ok, I am not wise in the ways of this electrical sorcery

 

[John Wiegerink]

Ok, I am not wise in the ways of this electrical sorcery

ICE stands for image correction and enhancement. It removes or hides dust and scratches on the negative. It doesn't work on monochrome (silver) negatives, only on color (dye coupler) negatives.

 

[MattKing]

It doesn't work on monochrome (silver) negatives, only on color (dye coupler) negatives.

And of course, it does work on black and white negatives that consist of dye clouds, rather than silver grains, due to employing dye coupler technology.

 

[John Wiegerink]

And of course, it does work on black and white negatives that consist of dye clouds, rather than silver grains, due to employing dye coupler technology.

Thanks, Matt, I should have explained it a little better than I did.