Ilford XP 2

BBonte · Jun 10, 2006

Just printed some MF negatives on Ilford 20x20cm. Amazing results. No grain. This film seems to perform better than my 100 ASA films.

j-fr · Jun 10, 2006

Yes, it is an amazing film. Just remember that it is a color film, originally made for printing on color paper. So the contrast is very very low when you print on b&w paper. When printing on Ilford Multigrade you often have to step up to grade 4 or more to get an acceptable print. But the low contrast of the XP2 makes it excellent for high contrast subjects, such as nigth scenes.

j-fr

Ian Grant · Jun 10, 2006

Not sure why you think XP-2 is a colour film. It has always been a monochrome film, yes it does use dye couplers like a colour film and require c41 processing.

However it was originally designed for conventional Black & White printing and then improved for printing via minilab processing & printing on colour paper.

Ian

André E.C. · Jun 10, 2006

It´s certainly a fine film, incredible latitude!

Cheers

André

leeturner · Jun 10, 2006

I use XP2 quite a lot and it's a very forgiving film. When moving to FP4 I had to be a lot more careful when metering a very contrasty scene when compared to XP2. As stated earlier you find that you have to either print at a higher grade or split filter print, the latter being my preferred option. The other minor niggle is that it can be so grainless that it's hard to use the grain enlarger.
It's also a great film for travelling as it can be processed anywhere.

Roger Hicks · Jun 10, 2006

Ilford themselves have said that 'XP2 is a black and white film with the dye coupler added, while Kodak's are colour film with the colour taken out' and this certainly matches my experience. XP2 is sharper than Kodak's offerings, though coarser grained (the usual trade-off) and I vastly prefer the tonality.

It prints MUCH better on conventional paper than colour paper -- Kodak's are better for the latter -- and I find it generally requires only about 1/2 grade harder paper as compared with other films, i.e. 3 instead of 2-1/2 for an 'average' subject, though I agree that 3-1/2 and even 4 are needed more often than with conventional films. But I find that grade 5 is needed slightly less often than with conventional films (obviously I'm talking about seriously bad exposures here).

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

Stoo Batchelor · Jun 10, 2006

Roger Hicks said:
Roger Hicks said:

(obviously I'm talking about seriously bad exposures here).

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

Click to expand...

You Roger, Bad exposure, surely not!

Only joking!!!

On a serious note, I have often thought of using this film but am concerned that as it is dye based, the image will slowly fade on the negative, like a transparency does.

Has anyone experienced this or is it just a myth?

Regards

Stoo

Roger Hicks · Jun 10, 2006

Dear Stoo,

'Only joking!!!' -- I wasn't! We all screw up sometimes...

There is a VERY slow fade but you are looking at next to nothing in a lifetime (0,05 log density under normal storage maybe). If you want to Leave Your Archive To A Grateful Nation it might be a problem in 100 years. For real pictures, not a problem. Besides I'd suggest that a 100-year self-destruct for negatives might be a useful counter to the more precious Fine Art press. Pity, though, about the record shots, which are often more interesting 100 years on.

The worst I've seen is with 25-year-old XP1 that has gone funny colours, usually because it was stabilized instead of water washed when originally processed: a strong argument for using a pro lab or doing your own C41. We like XP2 so much that we do our own C41 in a CPE2.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

Stoo Batchelor · Jun 10, 2006

Roger Hicks said:
Dear Stoo,

There is a VERY slow fade but you are looking at next to nothing in a lifetime (0,05 log density under normal storage maybe).

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

Thanks for that Roger, thats great news.

I have printed XP2 negatives for a friend and like it has been said, zero grain and a lovely tonal range. It was just the archival worries that stopped me carrying a few rolls in my kit bag.

I will be shooting some promotional shots of a a friends daughter, a soon to be qualified dance teacher, in her Tutu, and it will be nice to show her a set of prints afterwards to discuss final prints, crops etc, so the XP2 will be ideal.

I have enjoyed your column and your tongue in cheak view on life for some time now, so like others here on APUG, are glad your here.

Kind Regards

Stoo

P.S Tis a great web site you and Frances have.

Dave Wooten · Jun 10, 2006

the photos posted on the Apug Convention gallery..."Les at work" and "fine wine" and "opening night' were all shot on xp2, I just choose a slow shutter speed I think I can hold and shoot wide open on stop down one.....these are with a canonet....one of my favorite films for available light , bar scenes etc...a very forgiving film...to me easy to get an acceptable image...the images above were 1/30 sec...

Stoo Batchelor · Jun 10, 2006

Dave

I'm impressed, hand held! And the film handles the light perfectly.

Plus I have just fallen in love with the Brunette making eye contact with your camera. Apologies if she belongs to you! Gorgeous.

Stoo

Dave Wooten · Jun 10, 2006

Stoo she is lovely, she did the music workshop, a very accomplished photographer and also music videos....working out of LA....I will next week post photos of the workshop, she actually did a photo shoot for the workshop for a promo for a new album ... the xp2 is a ringer for available light and catching the shot....it is so forgiving that I just eliminate the variable and let the "film choose" dev is the constant...c 41....try it at concerts with stage lighting etc...1/30 to 1/60 wide open and even stopped down a stop or 2 no prob....in those situations I do not even meter or get anal about the tonality....

Stoo Batchelor · Jun 10, 2006

Dave

Eternally greatfull for the info.

Am on the phone right now to order some.

Thanks again

Stoo

P.s... Just do not want to miss the conference next year. Will have to start saving.

j-fr · Jun 10, 2006

Ian Grant said:
Not sure why you think XP-2 is a colour film. It has always been a monochrome film, yes it does use dye couplers like a colour film and require c41 processing.

However it was originally designed for conventional Black & White printing and then improved for printing via minilab processing & printing on colour paper.

Ian

The contrast of the XP2 is balanced for printing on color paper, and the ISO speed of is measured in the same way as color negative film speed is measured. The XP2 ISO 400 can in no way compare to the ISO 400 of an ordinary b&w film til Tri-X or HP5+. Different definitions of speed.

j-fr

Roger Hicks · Jun 10, 2006

Dear j-fr,

Your view does not correspond with Ilford's, or with my own experience. The XP series was designed to give the best results on conventional paper. As for the ISO, while you are quite correct that there is no ISO standard for chromogenic mono films, the ISO standard for colour films doesn't quite work either. The ISO rating is done by analogy with conventional mono films, and ISO 400-500 is a fair rating: to say that it can 'in no way compare' is something of an overstatement.

Source: conversstions with Ilford technical experts and 25 years' using XP-series, including testing XP2 Super for Shutterbug magazine when it came out (and plotting D/log E curves -- I could hardly stand the excitement...).

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

leeturner · Jun 11, 2006

Roger, with regard to your comments on a colour shift with the negative, I've just had a strange experience with a strip of XP2 negs. Now this is my own fault but I left a strip of negs on a table in my darkroom. This room is in a loft and I remove the blackout blinds when the darkroom is not in use. We are currently having some much needed warm weather in the UK and after one day the negs have turned a magenta colour. I can only assume that they were in direct sunlight for a while as part of the strip was covered and it's only the uncovered part that has the strong magenta tint. Is this normal for a C41 type film? I've got some scrap negatives that I'm going to test in on today.

Roger Hicks · Jun 11, 2006

Dear Lee,

Thanks for the report. I have seen both green and magenta colour shifts but had not (until now) associated them with light-induced fading. I'll contact Ilford -- unless they see this first.

Cheers,

Roger

CraigK · Jun 11, 2006

Roger,

You mentioned that you process XP2 yourself in a Jobo. Have you tried extending the dev. time to "push" process the film?

XP2 is one of my favorite films. I love the look when exposed at iso 320 or even iso 250. However, for me, the creamy smooth look really seems to fall apart if I rate it above iso 400. The negs are rather thin and take on a more gritty look.

I've always wondered if extended dev. would improve this but since I do not develop it myself, have never tried.

bob100684 · Jun 11, 2006

leeturner said:
Roger, with regard to your comments on a colour shift with the negative, I've just had a strange experience with a strip of XP2 negs. Now this is my own fault but I left a strip of negs on a table in my darkroom. This room is in a loft and I remove the blackout blinds when the darkroom is not in use. We are currently having some much needed warm weather in the UK and after one day the negs have turned a magenta colour. I can only assume that they were in direct sunlight for a while as part of the strip was covered and it's only the uncovered part that has the strong magenta tint. Is this normal for a C41 type film? I've got some scrap negatives that I'm going to test in on today.

The same thing happened to mine too!

Roger Hicks · Jun 11, 2006

Dear Craig,

No, I've never pushed it. With all chromogenics, overexposure = smaller grain, though there is still the sharpness loss. How are you metering? I find that 400 is fine with a spot meter but with through-lens I use 320 or 250, like you.

And Bob: I'll DEFINITELY contact Ilford.

Cheers,

Roger

CraigK · Jun 11, 2006

Roger,

Thank you for the speedy reply. Since I tend to use XP2 in my rangefinders, I either use the camera's on-board meter (Mamiya 7, Canonet Glll) or when I am using my Leica M4-P or llla I just wet my finger, raise it to the wind and set the camera accordingly.

With XP2, iso 250 to 320 gives me the look I love.

Peter Jones · Jun 11, 2006

I'm intrigued by the references to slighy over-exposure and the look that it gives XP-2, does this give higher contrast, better tonal range or just a better "look" ? I have only used it at 400 (TTL) ISO , but might experiment with the next roll.

CraigK · Jun 11, 2006

Peter,

I find that with slight overexposure, skin tones take on a more creamy look. The film is fine grained to begin with (actually dye clouds rather than grain). With a bit of overexposure, it seems to be even finer grained (dye-clouded?), although as Roger pointed out, at the expense of some sharpness.

During a lighting workshop I lead a couple of months ago, as my students were doing their best to master their massive digi slr's, I photographed them on XP2 @ iso 400. I needed to get all the speed I could, the light levels were very low. I was using a Canonet G111 shooting handheld wide open (f1.7) at around 1/15 to 1/30 second. The shots were taken to illustrate some of the principles I was teaching that day (direction, intensity, quality of light etc.). If I had been able to give just a bit more exposure, the skin tones especially would glow just a wee bit more.

You can see the photos Dead Link Removed The jpeg compression and web-sizing does not do the tones justice. However. the wet prints I made of some of the shots do.

I've also posted some photos taken with XP2 to my Photo Blog

And to My Blog

And to my School's Blog

Peter Jones · Jun 11, 2006

I'll definitely give that a go next time I've XP2 loaded, thanks.

Black Dog · Jun 11, 2006

As an allround film it has few equals IMO-I probably use more of it than any other film, the convenience aspect is great if you're travelling and the tonality is especially good for portraits;almost 1930s (Anchell + Troop comment on this in 'The Film Developing Cookbook').

Ilford XP 2

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