Ilford Warmtone paper with Ilford Warmtone Developer- not very warm?

[TheFlyingCamera]

I decided to do some enlarging today, for the first time in a long time (all this shooting with my Rolleiflex got me back into the idea of making some silver-gelatin enlargements). Maybe I've been completely corrupted by how warm a palladium print is in comparison, but I broke out the Ilford Warmtone developer I had stashed (thank you, Simon Galley!), and I ran a few prints on Ilford Multigrade Warmtone paper. To my eye, they're not very warm - more like just not cold. Is this what I should expect, or is there something wrong? Anyone out there have any experience with this combination?

 

[tkamiya]

I get that same result. WT paper base has some definite cream tone but the emulsion itself doesn't really turn warm. Not cold however....

I really didn't see much difference between Dektol and Ilford WT developer.

 

[Barry S]

Scott, I think what you're seeing is normal. It's a subtle (but definite) warmtone effect. If you enlarge on a sheet of the regular multigrade and compare, you'll see the difference. If you want some more pronounced warmth, I recommend the DuPont 6T (thiocarb) toning system--it'll give a wide range of obvious warm tones. Are you finishing with selenium? That seems to deepen the blacks and slightly increase the overall warmth.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I haven't toned anything yet. They're still either on the drying screen or in the final wash. I did pick up a bottle of Ilford Selenium toner to try. I'll also give a whirl at printing some tomorrow on my remaining old stock of Bergger VCCB, which gets much warmer in warmtone developers.

 

[rorye]

I get some fairly chocolatey tones from that combination but I'm getting even warmer with MGWT in LPD stock.
Perhaps not as warm as a straight pd but that has it's variables too I suppose.

 

[JLP]

Also my experience. I like the Ilford WT paper a lot, it is one of, if not my favorite paper but I would like to see it warmer. Selenium toning helps a bit but this paper is not easy to tone.
Maybe I will give the LPD a try, thanks for the tip.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Here's the more successful of the two good prints I got out of yesterday's session. It actually comes across warmer in the scan than it is in real life.

This is more typical:

 

[frotog]

Higher temps, shorter times will give you warmer tones.

 

[Peter Schrager]

try foma #542 paper

 

[Ian Grant]

I've had good warm tones with the paper, you need to cut dev times to a minimum and increase exposure to get more warmth. I don't process for longer tthan a minute when I require maximum warmth.

Ian

 

[Neal]

Warmth must be in the eyes of the beholder. I think the second one has a very warm tone. :>)

Neal Wydra

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

What I mean when I'm talking about warm is that I'm expecting blacks and mid tones with a chocolatey undertone. The highlights, especially on the first one, are definitely there, in the scan. I'll tell you that they're not that warm in the print, though. This is the problem with digitization of hard copies. I found that when trying to clean up the tones to match the original prints, I started getting some crossover and picking up other colors (greens in particular) that aren't there either, and are far less appealing.

 

[pentaxuser]

I read a post recently which is now some years old by Les McLean where he gives the following for WT papers in general in LPD: 1+2 neutral warm brown and 1+1 very dark brown to brown black. No examples shown in his post but to say "very dark brown" has to mean something. Might be worth a try with LPD

In my own experience Ilford WT paper in Ilford WT developer was only a very subtle brown. In fact as I was doing a run of prints with this combination I had difficulty seeing any brown tones after I had done a few prints until I compared prints done in MGIV with MG developer and then the difference was clear.

pentaxuser

 

[pgomena]

I used to mix a scratch batch of this warm tone developer for use with Ektalure. It gave very nice warm brown tones that turned a beautiful cool chocolate tone when toned in selenium. Yes, I know part of the equation is Ektalure, and Ilford warm tone paper is not as warm. Worth a try.

GAF 135 Warm Tone Paper Developer

Water: 750ml
Metol: 1.6g
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated: 24g
Hydroquinone: 6.6g
Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated: 24g
Potassium Bromide: 2.8g*
water to make: 1.0 liter total volume.

Dilute 1:1 with water, develop 2-3 minutes at 68 degrees F. Dilute more for less contrast.

*For warmer tone, Potassium Bromide may be increased up to 5.6 g/l. Do not exceed 5.6 g/liter.

I usually used it at 5g/l of KBR.

I think this formula came from the old Photo-Lab Index.

 

[rorye]

I read a post recently which is now some years old by Les McLean where he gives the following for WT papers in general in LPD: 1+2 neutral warm brown and 1+1 very dark brown to brown black. No examples shown in his post but to say "very dark brown" has to mean something. Might be worth a try with LPD

In my own experience Ilford WT paper in Ilford WT developer was only a very subtle brown. In fact as I was doing a run of prints with this combination I had difficulty seeing any brown tones after I had done a few prints until I compared prints done in MGIV with MG developer and then the difference was clear.

pentaxuser

Here's MGWT in LPD stock, I can smell the chocolate

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[brian steinberger]

Why not just tone in a polysulfide toner, like Viradon, or Kodak brown toner? Beautiful chocolate brown tones..

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Why not just tone in a polysulfide toner, like Viradon, or Kodak brown toner? Beautiful chocolate brown tones..

I could. A: I don't have any in stock right now, B: I was trying to use what's on hand, C: I wanted to see what could be done with the papers/developers at hand. I just did some prints this morning with the Bergger COT320 and the Ilford Warmtone developer, and they really aren't much different, except that the Bergger emulsion is a LOT slower than the Ilford (a good 2 stops slower). When the prints are dry, I'll scan in one to post.

 

[grahamp]

I have cooled off the highlights on Warmtone (in Warmtone) by using a potassium ferricyanide / potassium bromide bleach and then redeveloped in the same developer. Partial bleaching leaves warmer shadows by comparison.

In theory substituting sodium chloride (adjusted proportion) for the potassium bromide is supposed to give a warmer tone on redevelopment, but my initial experiments have been inconclusive. I need to try again - I could use a warmer tone short of sepia processing or the reddish effect of selenium with this paper. of course, with my colour vision the effect has to be quite blatant

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Here is a print with Bergger VCCB in Ilford Warmtone. Noticeably warmer (still not chocolate, but definitely not cool tone).

 

[Ghostman]

The combination of Ilford WT paper and developer responds very well to bleaching/toning. I use it a lot and love it.

 

[c6h6o3]

Amidol also yields beautiful warm tones with Ilford MGWT paper.

 

[Steve Sherman]

I used to mix a scratch batch of this warm tone developer for use with Ektalure. It gave very nice warm brown tones that turned a beautiful cool chocolate tone when toned in selenium. Yes, I know part of the equation is Ektalure, and Ilford warm tone paper is not as warm. Worth a try.

GAF 135 Warm Tone Paper Developer

Water: 750ml
Metol: 1.6g
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated: 24g
Hydroquinone: 6.6g
Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated: 24g
Potassium Bromide: 2.8g*
water to make: 1.0 liter total volume.

Dilute 1:1 with water, develop 2-3 minutes at 68 degrees F. Dilute more for less contrast.

*For warmer tone, Potassium Bromide may be increased up to 5.6 g/l. Do not exceed 5.6 g/liter.

I usually used it at 5g/l of KBR.

I think this formula came from the old Photo-Lab Index.

For years I used this exact GAF 135 formula, as stated with a max of 5g. of Kbr.

Searching for more warmth, I discovered the following formula, a close brother to the above, however, definitely a warmer version. GAF 125 Developer, copied and pasted from my working notes.

stored @ a 1/1 mixture w / H2O
add 1 more H2O for 2/1 working mix
or
¾ part water & ¾ part used Dev.

mix Sulfite prior to Hydro & Sodium Carb

Water @ 1200………………. 2000 ml
Metol ………………………… 36 g
Sodium Sulfite ……………… 528 g
Hydroquinone ………………. 144 g
Sodium Carbonate …………. 780 g
Pot Bromide (Kbr) …………… 24 g

Water to make ……………. 12000 ml


As stated somewhere in this thread, for more warmth try substituting Pot. Carbonate for Sod. Carbonate, I did and saw no significant gain in warmth and a substantially slower acting developer as a result.

Cheers,

 

[Zathras]

Has anybody tried this paper with Ansco-130?

 

[Zathras]

Here's MGWT in LPD stock, I can smell the chocolate

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

This is the effect I'm looking for. Was this print toned? I didn't see any info about toners used.

 

[rorye]

No, this one's not toned, just LPD stock on MGWT, 15% overexposed then developed for only 2 mins as opposed to my usual 3-4 for LPD.
If you're in SF it'll be in the Moma Artist Gallery as of next week, you can see it in the flesh