Ilford warmtone MGFB

ericdan · May 6, 2018

I usually print on MCC110 fiber paper. I got my hands on a cheap box of Ilford warmtone fiber paper.
It was close to expiration and the store had it on sale 50% off. Expires in June 2018.

I developed two sheets in Dektol 1:2 for 2:00 mins but can't see it being any warmer than MCC110 (which is not a warmtone paper)
Do I also need a warmtone developer to make that paper look warm?

Alan9940 · May 7, 2018

I use Ansco 130 with this paper and find it has a pleasant look of warmth. I haven't used Dektol in years, but my guess is that this formula would push this paper more toward neutral. You might want to experiment with ID-78.

removedacct1 · May 7, 2018

Dektol doesn't give Ilford's Warmtone paper a whole lot of warmth. Its definitely warmer than neutral, but the warmth is subtle. I have acquired the Bergger warmtone developer and will try it with the Ilford paper soon.

ericdan · May 7, 2018

Ilford developers are too expensive here. I have access to Adox and Rollei or mix them up myself.
Regarding Ansco. I thought the 130 is neutral as well and the 135 is the warm tone one?

R.Gould · May 7, 2018

I don't know if you can get this where you are, but the dest warm tone developer around by far is Fotospeed wt10, I use the adox paper and develop it in the WT10, at 1/19 and get a very noticeable warmth to the Adox paper, I don't use the Ilford wt paper but use the MG300, which I believe uses the same, or pretty much the same emulsion, and in the Fotospeed developer it is very warm, warmer than it is in Ilfords awn WT developer, and you can dilute it even further to 1/29 and the results are even warmer

Lachlan Young · May 7, 2018

ericdan said:
Ilford developers are too expensive here. I have access to Adox and Rollei or mix them up myself.
Regarding Ansco. I thought the 130 is neutral as well and the 135 is the warm tone one?

First port of call should be Adox Neutol WA, then if that's not warm enough, start looking in to making your own developer.

Ian Grant · May 7, 2018

Neutol Wa or Ilford Warmtone developer are very similar. I use Ilford ID-78 which was once sold as a powder warm -tone developer, the crrent Ilford Warmtone developer is just a liquid variant based on it.

For warmer tones keep the development time short or dilute the developer a touch more, over development kills the warmth, as does over fixing.

Ian

David Allen · May 7, 2018

The key to obtaining a good warm tone for prints is to remember that longer exposures will facilitate shorter development times which will deliver the warmest tone (when you wish to achieve warmer tones the payoff is that you will not get the richest possible blacks).

Back in the day I used to like warm tone prints (doesn’t suit the work that I now do). According to my battered notebook, the best results for me were achieved using the old, simple to make, Gevaert GD-67 formula:

Water (at 52°C) 750ml
Metol 4g
Sodium sulfite (anhy) 57g
Sodium carbonate (mono) 95g or Sodium carbonate (anhy) 82g
Potassium bromide 0.6g
Water to make up to 1000ml

To use:

Dilute stock at 1 + 4.
Use at 20˚C
Do a test strip and develop for 1 minute (for fibre papers)

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Alan9940 · May 7, 2018

ericdan said:
Ilford developers are too expensive here. I have access to Adox and Rollei or mix them up myself.
Regarding Ansco. I thought the 130 is neutral as well and the 135 is the warm tone one?

Ansco 130 is not considered a warm tone developer. I was simply stating what I use and that Ilford Warmtone takes on a pleasant, if not subtle warmth. The color will get ever so slightly warmer as the Ansco “ages.” I’d suggest starting with one of the warm tone developers and see how you like that. If you’re looking for really warm tones—browns, chocolates—then you’re looking at toning.

Ian Grant · May 7, 2018

David, I don't think that's a correct Gevaert developer formulae, the only reference I've seen for GD-67 states it was in a Photo Lab Index supplement and the incidence of incorrect formulae in that publication is alarmingly high. It's not in any of my Gevaert Manuals, in addition Gevaert's numbering for developers starts at G.201 for Negative developers and G.251 for Paper developers, G.301 for fixers etc, and that's back into the 1930's when they published their first manual. The highest no paper developer they published was G.262.

Ian

tedr1 · May 7, 2018

This is what the Ilford MGFB WT datasheet says

"The choice of developer affects the image colour of MULTIGRADE FB WARMTONE paper. From the ILFORD range of developers, warmest results are achieved with MULTIGRADE and BROMOPHEN developers. MULTIGRADE FB WARMTONE paper can also be processed in other high quality dish/tray developers."

I use Ilford MG developer with excellent results.

faberryman · May 7, 2018

MGFB Warmtone is subtly, but noticeably, warmer than MGFB Classic. I did not find that Ilford Warmtone developer adds much warmth though. MGFB Warmtone does tone much more readily than Classic, which is the reason I have settled on using it.

john_s · May 7, 2018

I develop it in ID-78 which I mix with potassium carbonate rather than sodium carbonate (molar equivalents of course) and that's supposed to promote warmth. I find the warmth to be barely perceptible but I like it. MGFB warmtone paper here in Australia tends to be oldish stock, which apparently causes less warmth.

Ian Grant · May 8, 2018

john_s said:
I develop it in ID-78 which I mix with potassium carbonate rather than sodium carbonate (molar equivalents of course) and that's supposed to promote warmth. I find the warmth to be barely perceptible but I like it. MGFB warmtone paper here in Australia tends to be oldish stock, which apparently causes less warmth.

If you replace the Sodium Carbonate with Potassium Carbonate and a small amount of Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide you can make a more concentrated stock solution equivalent to the current Ilford Warmtone developer and Neutol WA. See here, the concentrated stock keeps around 2+ years in a good bottle.

The only significant difference between the concentrated ID-78 I use (or Ilford Warmtone), and Neutol WA is the ratio of Carbonate to Hydroxide used in manufacture in use they are interchangeable, Neutol WA uses less carbonate and more hydroxide.

Ian

David Allen · May 8, 2018

Ian Grant said:
David, I don't think that's a correct Gevaert developer formulae, the only reference I've seen for GD-67 states it was in a Photo Lab Index supplement and the incidence of incorrect formulae in that publication is alarmingly high. It's not in any of my Gevaert Manuals, in addition Gevaert's numbering for developers starts at G.201 for Negative developers and G.251 for Paper developers, G.301 for fixers etc, and that's back into the 1930's when they published their first manual. The highest no paper developer they published was G.262.

Ian

Hi Ian,

yes the name/number for the developer may well be wrong - this would have been a formula that I copied down in the late 1970s from either Amateur Photographer, Practical Photography or possibly The Zone VI Workshop newsletter.

At the time I was doing large-format landscape photographs and this is definitely the formula that I used with Portriga Rapid paper.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Ian Grant · May 8, 2018

David Allen said:
Hi Ian,

yes the name/number for the developer may well be wrong - this would have been a formula that I copied down in the late 1970s from either Amateur Photographer, Practical Photography or possibly The Zone VI Workshop newsletter.

At the time I was doing large-format landscape photographs and this is definitely the formula that I used with Portriga Rapid paper.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

I never saw it in AP or Practical Photography both of which I read in the 1970s, I was doing research at the time and would have noted it down. Most likely a US publication like the Zone VI newsletter. I haven't a developer close to it in my Database, but my guess is it's soft working and that can help increase warmth as well.

Ian

esearing · May 12, 2018

faberryman said:
MGFB Warmtone is subtly, but noticeably, warmer than MGFB Classic. I did not find that Ilford Warmtone developer adds much warmth though. MGFB Warmtone does tone much more readily than Classic, which is the reason I have settled on using it.

I agree with faberryman. If you are expecting the color to shift to brown-ish with warm tone developer it doesn't happen.

ericdan · Jun 18, 2018

ID-78 contains Phenidone, which I can't get in Japan.
How do Kodak D-52, D-168 and Ansco 135 compare to ID-78? I don't hear many people mention those.

Pieter12 · Jun 18, 2018

ericdan said:
I usually print on MCC110 fiber paper. I got my hands on a cheap box of Ilford warmtone fiber paper.
It was close to expiration and the store had it on sale 50% off. Expires in June 2018.

I developed two sheets in Dektol 1:2 for 2:00 mins but can't see it being any warmer than MCC110 (which is not a warmtone paper)
Do I also need a warmtone developer to make that paper look warm?

Can't help with the warm tone developer, but a couple of observations: the warm tone art paper is about a stop slower than the classic glossy paper and the emulsion is more delicate, prone to separating at the edges if you're not careful. It does take toning quite well, though especially sepia.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 18, 2018

Alan9940 said:
I use Ansco 130 with this paper and find it has a pleasant look of warmth. I haven't used Dektol in years, but my guess is that this formula would push this paper more toward neutral. You might want to experiment with ID-78.

I second ID-78

Frank53 · Jun 18, 2018

This weekend I experimented with Foma fb warmtone. I used Neutol WA and the combination gave nice warm tones.
Have to do some more tests, but I guess the developer helped quit a bit in this combination.
Regards,
Frank.

ericdan · Jun 29, 2018

Just tried Neutol WA on Ilford warmtone FB and it doesn’t look a lot warmer than dektol does. Used dilution 1:9 and 3 mins development. Maybe I need to try toning instead.

Ron789 · Jun 29, 2018

Adox is partnering with Harman for emulsions. I'm not sure about MCC but the emulsion Adox uses for their Variotome FB paper is (pretty much or completely?) the same as Ilford MGWTFB. The Adox warmtone paper base is more brilliant white than the Ilford. I tried Adox and Ilford papers in several developers but found that the impact of the developer was marginal. In fact, some neutral developers from one brand produced warmer images than warmtone developers from another brand, e.g. Neutol WA. I stopped experimenting with paper developers and now stick to Ilford Multigrade developer.

ericdan · Jun 29, 2018

I remember watching an Ilford representative on YouTube explaining how they designed their emulsions to give consistant results regardless of how fresh the developer used is. Maybe that same property makes warm tone developers less effective, too.
The positive is that dektol is much cheaper and I get the same or very similar results.
Sticking to that and using toning for warmer tones is probably a better route.

esearing · Jul 4, 2018

ericdan said:
Just tried Neutol WA on Ilford warmtone FB and it doesn’t look a lot warmer than dektol does. Used dilution 1:9 and 3 mins development. Maybe I need to try toning instead.

I have tried several developers and not been able to achieve a warmtone without toning. Thiorurea toner is the easiest and provides the widest array of color. Bleaching controls how deep into the blacks you alter the color. Selenium + Thiourea is a lovely combination with this paper.

I use LPD 1:2 with this paper which seems to give nice open shadows especially once toned.

Ilford warmtone MGFB

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