Ilford under the lens filter kit on a Focomat

[Rc101]

Hi,

I have ordered the Ilford under the lens contrast filter kit, which comes with an adapter that mounts onto the enlarger lens. Sadly it doesn't fit either the Focomat v35 (with standard Leitz WA 40) or 1c (with Rodagon 50). I have tried both mounting methods described in the install document.

Has anyone been able to mount it successfully on either of these enlargers, by using some compatible mounting bracket? I know that some have manufactured it themselves, while others just hand hold the filters or knock out the red glass in the under the lens red filter and just place the contrast filter on it. But looking to see if there is a better option out there?

Thanks!

 

[Hilo]

For the Focomat 1c I find the best option to modify a black metal filter holder from either Beseler or Omega. It is very easy to do. Attached a photo of the 1c with a Beseler filter holder (I believe from the 23). I had to drill a new hole in the arm of the filter holder and I sawed off the upstanding ridge at the right rear.

Leitz USA actually made this filter holder but they're hard to find. Sometimes you'll see them on the older round head 1c's . .

 

[Rc101]

For the Focomat 1c I find the best option to modify a black metal filter holder from either Beseler or Omega. It is very easy to do. Attached a photo of the 1c with a Beseler filter holder (I believe from the 23). I had to drill a new hole in the arm of the filter holder and I sawed off the upstanding ridge at the right rear.

Leitz USA actually made this filter holder but they're hard to find. Sometimes you'll see them on the older round head 1c's . .

Thank you, that does look like a clean setup! Could you confirm if the Ilford under the lens filters (2.5x2.5”) fit into the holder, assuming that is what you are also using? Below is a link to the filter kit I have:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...6bNvrpU7MdMZL2Jpxg4_-bipxyG7vGgBoCy5oQAvD_BwE

Thanks again!

 

[Hatchetman]

Kodak made a little filter holder like that with three plastic screws that would hold it onto the enlarger lens barrel. It works OK as long as you are not changing lenses a lot. I bought one on eBay.

 

[Hilo]

Could you confirm if the Ilford under the lens filters (2.5x2.5”) fit into the holder, assuming that is what you are also using?

Sure, but I need to check in the weekend. I have used both the lose filters as well as the Ilford filters - and in the Beseler holder as well as the Omega holder . . . Just want to make sure.

 

[summicron1]

have you tried putting the filters on top of the condenser inside the enlarger head?

I did that. I have some Durst filters that were meant to fit in a filter drawer on a durst or other type enlarger, they're about 3 inches square, no frame, so I put a bit of tape on the back side of the condenser frame to keep the filter from sliding off when I tilt the head back and just take the top half of the head off and put the filter on top of the condenser.

Optically, that's actually the best place for it, since then you aren't introducing a piece of crappy plastic into the projected images that the very highly corrected hunk of enlarger lens just created.

 

[eddie]

The Kodak and Ilford filters are the same size. I have the Kodak one ( with the screws) you can have if you’d like. I live in Alexandria, and am regularly in NW DC.

 

[Rc101]

Kodak made a little filter holder like that with three plastic screws that would hold it onto the enlarger lens barrel. It works OK as long as you are not changing lenses a lot. I bought one on eBay.

Thanks! The Ilford kit does come with the bracket that mounts onto the lens, but does not fit either Focomats.

 

[Rc101]

have you tried putting the filters on top of the condenser inside the enlarger head?

I did that. I have some Durst filters that were meant to fit in a filter drawer on a durst or other type enlarger, they're about 3 inches square, no frame, so I put a bit of tape on the back side of the condenser frame to keep the filter from sliding off when I tilt the head back and just take the top half of the head off and put the filter on top of the condenser.

Optically, that's actually the best place for it, since then you aren't introducing a piece of crappy plastic into the projected images that the very highly corrected hunk of enlarger lens just created.

Yes, I agree that ideally the filter should be above the negative, but from what I’ve read, there is no perceptible degradation with the filters that were designed for under the lens. Supposedly these are of better optical quality. At least that’s the theory.

Putting it on top of the condenser is cumbersome, having to open the enlarger multiple times, but it’s an option. I purchased the Ilford kit specifically to use under the lens for quick filter swaps.

 

[Rc101]

The Kodak and Ilford filters are the same size. I have the Kodak one ( with the screws) you can have if you’d like. I live in Alexandria, and am regularly in NW DC.

Thanks so much Eddie, that’s very kind of you. I do have the filter kit from Ilford, which comes with bracket that mounts onto the lens with 3 screws, unfortunately it doesn’t fit the Focomat v35 or 1c.

It sounds like what you have, am I right? Otherwise I would have gladly taken you up on your generous offer, had I not purchased a new set.

 

[Hilo]

Okay, your Ilford filters fit all three filter holders that I have: the Beseler holder pictured in my previous post and the Omega and Leitz holders pictured here. With each holder the fit is fine, not too tight but the filters do not swim around . . .

I can't locate the Beseler holder at the moment (I moved not long ago, pffft) but I do know that, despite some design differences, all three work fine. My favourite is the Omega holder, for two reasons: its diameter is the largest of the three and the operation is easiest because it is open at the front. It is also a little easier to modify as you only need to drill a hole in the arm (with the Beseler holder you need to also saw off the upstanding ridge at the right rear).

The Leitz holder obviously requires no modification, but it is very difficult to find. The shoulder screw is different from the one that fixes the red filter . . . the first two pictures are the Omega holder, the last two the Leitz holder.

The Omega filter holder is shown in the picture with the Leitz Valoy II. It also works fine with the Focomat 1c.

 

[Rc101]

Okay, your Ilford filters fit all three filter holders that I have: the Beseler holder pictured in my previous post and the Omega and Leitz holders pictured here. With each holder the fit is fine, not too tight but the filters do not swim around . . .

I can't locate the Beseler holder at the moment (I moved not long ago, pffft) but I do know that, despite some design differences, all three work fine. My favourite is the Omega holder, for two reasons: its diameter is the largest of the three and the operation is easiest because it is open at the front. It is also a little easier to modify as you only need to drill a hole in the arm (with the Beseler holder you need to also saw off the upstanding ridge at the right rear).

The Leitz holder obviously requires no modification, but it is very difficult to find. The shoulder screw is different from the one that fixes the red filter . . . the first two pictures are the Omega holder, the last two the Leitz holder.

The Omega filter holder is shown in the picture with the Leitz Valoy II. It also works fine with the Focomat 1c.

Thank you so much for the thorough response and supporting images! It appears you have tried them all, and may I say you have some beautiful gear in your collection (based on the glimpse of your photos)! With the risk of sounding odd, I'd love to see more .

Back to the point, I'll be on the hunt for a Leiz / Omega / Beseler holder, in that priority, but will be happy with either really. Thanks again for the guidance!

 

[eddie]

The one I have is different than the Ilford holder you linked. The Kodak one attaches to the lens with three thumbscrews.

 

[Rc101]

The one I have is different than the Ilford holder you linked. The Kodak one attaches to the lens with three thumbscrews.

View attachment 196711 View attachment 196712

Hi Eddie, I really appreciate the offer. The Ilford kit also comes with the filter tray with the 3 screws, just noticed that the B&H photo doesn't show it. The kit includes the three legged bracket and the tray with screws, neither mounting methods work with the Focomats. So I will continue searching for the above mentioned holders.

Thanks again though!

 

[Patrick Robert James]

If you want to get going before you can find a filter holder you can glue a right angle bracket onto the filter holder and use the post to mount it. I did that when I first got my Focomat. It might be good enough for you to not even bother with an Omega/Beseler bracket.

 

[Hilo]

Patrick has a point ! It would be a pity if you can't print until you find a holder. What you could also do as an in between solution is take away the red plastic from the red filter and just place the multigrade filters on that . . . if you don't have the red filter for the 1c or if you do not want to destruct it, I will be happy to send you one for that purpose.

With regards to the other suggestion of placing the filters on the condenser: that will also work but with the Focomat 1c it is not ideal. To remove the top half of the enlarger head you lift it up by the system you use to keep the lamp centered. That is easily misaligned. Better to leave that untouched after you have the correct illumination.

 

[Rc101]

If you want to get going before you can find a filter holder you can glue a right angle bracket onto the filter holder and use the post to mount it. I did that when I first got my Focomat. It might be good enough for you to not even bother with an Omega/Beseler bracket.

Thanks for the tip Michael, I think I’ll try that!

 

[Rc101]

Patrick has a point ! It would be a pity if you can't print until you find a holder. What you could also do as an in between solution is take away the red plastic from the red filter and just place the multigrade filters on that . . . if you don't have the red filter for the 1c or if you do not want to destruct it, I will be happy to send you one for that purpose.

With regards to the other suggestion of placing the filters on the condenser: that will also work but with the Focomat 1c it is not ideal. To remove the top half of the enlarger head you lift it up by the system you use to keep the lamp centered. That is easily misaligned. Better to leave that untouched after you have the correct illumination.

Thanks so much for the offer, Hilo. I’m constantly amazed by how helpful folks are on this site! I have looked at the red filter on the 1C and it doesn’t look like the glass comes out unless I break it, which I’d rather not do, as you have mentioned. So I will keep your kind offer in mind while I try two options - one being Patrick’s suggestion, the other is simply cutting a holder out of cardboard or thin plastic material, that might also work temporary. My one reservation with using the red filter holder is that it’s too narrow to support the filters by the plastic frame, resulting in the actual filters being in contact with the holder below and might cause them to get scratched, possibly affecting the print. Probably being overly cautious.

But I am not dead in the water as I’m using the V35 in the mean time with its built in color filters.

 

[bence8810]

Hi there,

In Japan they used to sell so called Fuji VG filters which came with a nice holder that has a spring mount, hard to explain. You squeeze the handle and it opens, push it on the barrel and let go, the spring clamp holds it in place - sort of. It won’t be perfectly straight nor stable but if you stay in the AF range and your lens don’t need to turn, it does the job.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t558695738

This one is expensive but they do come up cheaper.

I also have another solution, a snake arm that you can position any way which has two clamps to hold onto some flat surface on the enlarger and the other to hold the filter.

Link below:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B0091GCI9U/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Good luck,
Ben

 

[Rc101]

Hi there,

In Japan they used to sell so called Fuji VG filters which came with a nice holder that has a spring mount, hard to explain. You squeeze the handle and it opens, push it on the barrel and let go, the spring clamp holds it in place - sort of. It won’t be perfectly straight nor stable but if you stay in the AF range and your lens don’t need to turn, it does the job.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t558695738

This one is expensive but they do come up cheaper.

I also have another solution, a snake arm that you can position any way which has two clamps to hold onto some flat surface on the enlarger and the other to hold the filter.

Link below:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B0091GCI9U/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Good luck,
Ben

Hi Ben, thank you so much for the suggestions. The snake arm is an interesting idea!

 

[Rc101]

I have made a temporary holder until I find a better one, sharing it in case it helps someone else. I have found excellent schematics on Github, credit goes to aha (?), URL below.

https://github.com/aha/filterholder

I printed out the 1:1 drawing, cut it along the lines then overlayed itonto black cardboard I purchased at Michaels (to make dodging/burning tools). I traced it with a pencil then cut out the holder with scissors and a sharp utility knife. I bent the corners up then covered most surfaces with gaffers tape to keep the laminated cardboard from disintegrating at the edges.

It’s not pretty but works for now.

 

[bence8810]

I have made a temporary holder until I find a better one, sharing it in case it helps someone else. I have found excellent schematics on Github, credit goes to aha (?), URL below.

https://github.com/aha/filterholder

I printed out the 1:1 drawing, cut it along the lines then overlayed itonto black cardboard I purchased at Michaels (to make dodging/burning tools). I traced it with a pencil then cut out the holder with scissors and a sharp utility knife. I bent the corners up then covered most surfaces with gaffers tape to keep the laminated cardboard from disintegrating at the edges.

It’s not pretty but works for now.

View attachment 196911

Looks great! If you get around to having the same professionally machined for you, it’ll last forever. This holder by Andi is based on an original Leitz design if I am not mistaken which was exclusively sold in the US by Leitz NY.

Happy printing!
Ben

 

[~andi]

I'm glad the work has been useful to someone. I made the holder together with Hilo based on the Leitz 17563, Omega and Beseler holders with some improvements. The project is kind of stalled because lack of time. It's easy to to one-offs from a sheet of aluminum, steel or mat board based on the CAD drawings.

The next step would be to crate a 3D model files from the CAD drawings (volunteers welcome) which can be used by Shapeways or similar services to create a steel or aluminum version.

Cheers
Andi

 

[Patrick Robert James]

That is a great solution. I wish someone would 3d print them...

Since I only use one blue and one green filter I've wanted a way to attach both at the same time and swing them away when not in use. Sill figuring that one out. Maybe I'll just make two of these....

 

[Hilo]

Thanks Ben, for mentioning this prototype !!

If I remember well the improvements we made were:

- lower upright ridges (these just proved it easier to place the filters)

- one open side (taken from the Omega holder's design, again it makes it easier to place the filter)

- a larger diameter for the round opening (the Leitz holder had the smallest diameter, making it larger was better for the Valoy II)