Ilford: State of the Photo World ?

[df cardwell]

As long as there are repair technicians to fix your broken fish.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Ruediger,

In line with my policy of stating only the facts, it is absolutely correct that I should state the current situation, prices in the UK were increased by 10.00% as of October 1st 2008.

I think since the summer you have also seen the benefit of the reduction in the value of the £ versus the Euro.

As per distribution in Germany its by a company called Le Bon Image, full details on our website : We ship weekly as per their instructions, our delivery record from stock items is rarely ever below 95.00% some more esoteric items that are 'make to order' ( see our PAL, Product Availability List on our website ) take 5 days from date of distributor order to manufacture so maximum deivery is therfore 2 weeks + European shipment.

Thank you using and valuing ILFORD Photo products :

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

 

[Trask]

While I wish Ilford well, I was very struck by the almost complete absence of any film or paper (wet darkroom) products at the Ilford booth at the Salon de la Photo here in Paris a month ago. Big printers were on display, and some rolls of HP5 120 stuck in a glass cabinet kind of at a rear corner of the booth. No one who wasn't familiar with Ilford and its history would have thought they were anything but a new-to-market vendor stalking the digital market.

Obviously there's money in digital; who can deny it? But if Ilford wants to keep its silver-based products in the public eye, there's got to be a better effort made.

Or was this the French importer not stepping up to the plate???

 

[wogster]

Exactly. Imagine we are now 15 years further in time. My beloved FM3a finally breaks down because it's heavily used and anyway 20years old. Battery is not available anymore.
What to do ? Buy a new camera ? Not possible, it isn't there. Buy the (fictive) bargain of a fm4a - not possible it has never existed. End of show to put it simple.

Let's see, my two film cameras, are nearly old enough combined to collect old age pension, one was made in 1977, the other in 1981. They are Konicas, now Konica got out of the SLR business in 1985, and stayed out until they merged with Minolta. Believe it or not, I can still get my Konica TC, from 1977 repaired. That Camera is 31 years oid, not only that, but I can still get one, very easily, for about $110. In fact I may just trade it in, and get another one that has been refurbished by the repair guy. Considering that there are still Konica Auto Reflexes in regular service, a model that hasn't been produced since 1968, I'm not overly concerned, that suddenly I will not be able to shoot film.

Another point, if there is demand for new film cameras, then camera companies will make them. Canon still lists 3 models in their catalogue, Nikon's catalogue lists the F6, not sure how that compares with your FM3a (I'm not up on Nikon products), but looks decent enough. Right now there are so many film cameras on the used market, that perhaps you should just pick up a couple of spare bodies now

 

[wogster]

Hello,
this forum looks like an Ilford Forum. For me, there are still other brands on the market. My distributor in Paris (on of the last real shop in town) informed us already about the price increase of 12% for Ilford papers in march 2009. Than he told me to have quality problems with the liquid Ilford Chemistry since Tetenal in Germany is producing it.
He told us that since Ilford changed the distribution with just the Europeen stocks in Belgium, he has big problems to get the products he likes to order. For this reason, he added tetenal chemistry et Tetenal papers in his catalog.
Here in France, Ilford is loosing more and more users because of many reasons. Our photo club worked many years with the FP4/HP5 and ID-11. It is finished since few months?
And this is not the fault of our user demands!

Let me get this straight, they are having quality problems with Ilford chemistries produced by Tetenal, so to resolve this they are adding Tetenal products to the catalogue, that sounds about as Kosher as a ham and cheese on white bread......

Maintaining a warehouse in every country of the EU doesn't make financial sense, it doesn't take long to ship from Belgium to France, I doubt that a ground shipment would take more then 2-3 days, air shipments would be over night.

If the shop is having problems with Ilford, then they should be talking to their Ilford sales rep. Sales reps who have commissions on the line, can be amazingly good at resolving problems.

I've never had a problem with Ilford products in nearly 30 years of using them, and that includes quite recently. Now it's possible that chemistries for use in Europe are made elsewhere for those here in North America.

 

[michaelbsc]

We do not ADVERTISE we communicate....

I can certainly attest to the fact that Ilford communicates. I have a rather lengthy email relationship with a guy named Rod who answers the NA tech support questions. Over the months I've sent some fairly detailed technical questions, and I always get back detailed technical answers.

I have no complaints at all about your tech support communications. I think it's outstanding. (Oh yea, the products are pretty darn good, too.)

Michael

 

[Robert Budding]

How long until I can buy digital prints on Ilford RC paper here in the US? I love film, but I shoot digital, too.

 

[df cardwell]

Simon

I just came upon this old advert, enjoy.

Looking forward to the old fashioned-ish papers from Kentmere !

 

[wogster]

How long until I can buy digital prints on Ilford RC paper here in the US? I love film, but I shoot digital, too.

You can make them yourself, simply print your digital image onto clear film used for overhead projectors, then contact print that onto film, process the film and print normally. I would think the best image for the least cost would be to print your images so that a single sheet of 8x10 has a bunch 6x4.5cm images on it, as close together as will fit, cut them apart after processing, then print them in a medium format enlarger onto whatever size you want.

 

[coriana6jp]

I have no complaints about Ilford products, the only problems that I have had are the ones I have created. They were extremely helpful in getting the problem fixed, especially after turns out it was my own fault.

My only "complaint", if you could call it that, is I wish the local reseller would stock sheet film here in Japan. They dont and the only way to get is to order from abroad and that get a little pricey. (Cyber graphics, are you listening?)

Gary

 

[rst]

Thanks Simon,

I just found it interesting, how different prices are.

How the shipping of HP5 in 8x10" can take more than four weeks? I do not know, at least I do not think that I am in esoteric photography. OK, I sometimes realize some ghosts on my pinhole photographs ...

Cheers
Ruediger

... We ship weekly as per their instructions, our delivery record from stock items is rarely ever below 95.00% some more esoteric items that are 'make to order' ( see our PAL, Product Availability List on our website ) take 5 days from date of distributor order to manufacture so maximum deivery is therfore 2 weeks + European shipment.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ruediger, I suspect a lot of problems with orders taking up to a month are due to the policies of the stores rather than Ilford & their distributors. It's often the case that a store may only place their order on a regular basis, or when the size of an order reaches a particular level.

On my last trip back to the UK I asked a store for negative files, I was told it would take about 4 weeks to order them. One big problem now is that most stores carry significantly smaller stock levels compared to 10 or 15 years ago.

Ian

 

[rst]

Ruediger, I suspect a lot of problems with orders taking up to a month are due to the policies of the stores rather than Ilford & their distributors. It's often the case that a store may only place their order on a regular basis, or when the size of an order reaches a particular level.

Yes Ian, that might be the case. I started to only order when the items are on stock. Since the local store has absolutely no expertise in traditional photography I enjoy the many choices I have on the net.

Cheers
Ruediger

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Ruediger,

HP5+ 10 x 8 is not esoteric......! biggish but not esoteric, I have checked it is held as a stock item with our distributor warehouse ( in Belgium ) and it is.

Kind Regards

Simon.

 

[pelerin]

As long as there are repair technicians to fix your broken fish.

Yup, and parts... parts is not (pardon the reference and cultural relativity) parts. This is a very real problem. Reliable camera repairs require both skilled / trained technicians and parts. What may be the oddest thing about this is that newer cameras will be rendered unrepairable from the no parts syndrome the ancient ones. Try getting the one obsolete IC you need to fix your gizmotron made up locally in quantity 1.

The other thing that serves to nullify the wonders of eBay argument is that most people don't simply need a camera they can run film through. They need a camera that utilizes particular lenses and accessories. I have two SLR systems and neither one of them is named Canon, Minolta, Olympus, Contax Yashica, Konica, Pentax, Topcon or a number or other minor players that I can't roll of the top of my head. In reality the number of serviceable cameras that are of use to one buyer is much smaller than the size of the market. Please excuse the foregoing complaint if you only use one lens and are not overly picky about brand, size, feature mix, etc..

OTOH. There exists in history the perfect camera for these troubled times... the Alpa 11. Adaptable with auto aperture function to many mounts (well, at least the ones I care about) no crappy autoelectromatrix junk, made of actual metal (not mystery meat or faux-bon fibre) and it even looks cool. I would love to say, "if only the new Alpa would put it (back) into production." but the real fact is that likely no one would buy it. They are all to busy trying to snipe shutter squeaking A series Canons and the price it would command would kill it before it got off the drawing board.

 

[nsouto]

Thanks Simon and Ilford, and all the other makers who might not be so involved but still support us and APUG.

I get one every second month or so at deviantArt mentioning they want to try film. They get directed to the appropriate places of course and all the help and incentive I can provide gets passed along.

Heck: it's not much, but it's my way of helping and I'll stick to it.

 

[haris]

Simon, you may check or not, but the funny thing about the German distributor (who ever it is) is, that if I order at an online store in England, even if I have to pay way more for shipment it is still cheaper than ordering in Germany. 100 sheets of MG Warmtone FB in 9.5x12" are enough to over-compensate the shipment costs. I ordered HP5 (8x10") in Germany and in England. Despite the higher, price the German distributor manged to have a delivery time of more than 4 weeks. Guess how long the delivery took when I ordered in England? Now that I know to order Ilford products in England instead of Germany it is much more fun buying them and in addition to that, I don't have to be overly patient.

Cheers
Ruediger

As I live in country where NOBODY import and/or sells anything (except few negative colour films) for analogue photography, I have no choice but to buy from out of country.

And doing that for almost 10 years I can tell you it is not a big problem.

Specifically to Ilford, my seller ship me everything and I get it in about 2 weeks (I request shipping by ordinary post, courriers are too expencive to me). Only when they don't have something in stock it need longer time. But, as you can see it is up to my seller, not Ilfords issue. Even if seller usually don't stock something, when I order it, they get it for me. And even with those occasional problems, I am happy with my seller and with Ilford. Never had quality issue regarding Ilford, and seller never told me I can't buy something. Even if they never stocked something, and even if I am only buyer and buy small quantities, seller will get it for me. And with reasonable, maybe even low, but for sure afordable to me price.

But, there is a thing. I do not wait to be left with last roll or two of films, or with last 5 sheets of paper and only then make new order, and then to be nervous to wait. If you buy your material regurally, or if you plan upfront and buy for example few boxes of paper when you open your last box of paper you currently have, or buy next 50 or 100 rolls of film when you are left with last 5 or 10 rolls, then waiting even few months is no big deal, and few weeks is nothing.

I learned to be patient, to plan my photo material buying upfront, and it goes smoothly.

Regards

 

[Martin Reed]

Simon

I just came upon this old advert, enjoy.

Looking forward to the old fashioned-ish papers from Kentmere !

...and again, BJP Almanac 1921. Very beautiful & Arthur Rackham, but did they sell paper?Dead Link Removed

 

[Ian Grant]

This is bit more apt, as the thread is about Ilford



Ian

 

[rst]

But, there is a thing. I do not wait to be left with last roll or two of films, or with last 5 sheets of paper and only then make new order, and then to be nervous to wait. If you buy your material regurally, or if you plan upfront and buy for example few boxes of paper when you open your last box of paper you currently have, or buy next 50 or 100 rolls of film when you are left with last 5 or 10 rolls, then waiting even few months is no big deal, and few weeks is nothing.

Yes I agree and this is exactly what I do. If there is no store around which stocks your materials, you have to stock them yourself. The long wait for the 8x10" film was when I needed it for the first time in my life, so there was no last box to open before that

And to those who read a complaint about Ilford out of what I wrote - it is not.

Cheers
Ruediger

 

[Martin Reed]

This is bit more apt, as the thread is about Ilford

Not at all, I think Ilford's publicity department could learn a lot from the direct approach of the early Kentmere advertising

Dead Link Removed

 

[Simon R Galley]

These are fabulous...thanks...I think the peacock is brilliant!

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN tcehnology Limited

 

[Harry Lime]

hmm. Thanks for the commitment from Ilford, but what really troubles me is the lack of new (as in brandnew) entry affortable level (slr) camera's. This will, in the end affect sales or supplies of film and paper.

Exactly. What will eventually kill film is the lack of reliable, reasonably priced cameras and the ability to get them serviced.

There are tens, if not hundreds of millions of used film cameras out there, but only a fraction of them are shooters. Many are simply poor designs or seriously obsolete and not really useable for anything more than playing around.

If you don't count large format and Lomo type bodies, we are down to a mere handful of models that can be purchased new. Most of these are made by Leica and Nikon. I highly doubt Nikon will release an F7 and Leica is busy trying to stay in business.

So, that leaves used bodies. Most of these cameras 10 years or older. Most of them need to be cleaned, lubricated and adjusted if you plan on doing anything more than taking the occasional picture of your cat.

But what are we going to do when reliable repair shops like Don Goldberg (DAG camera) and Sherry Krauter (Golden Touch) retire? I dread the day when Harry Fleenor closes shop. Who will then service my Rolleiflex cameras? I'm already having a difficult time getting my Nikon F and FM serviced.

And by serviced I mean quality work done to factory spec, not the hack jobs that the majority of shops perform. A Leica M has between 1200 - 1500 parts and needs specialized tools to be serviced. This is not something you can take apart at home and expect it to work properly, without the proper training.

If I was Ilford, Kodak or Fuji, this is what I would be worried about.
My advice? Set up a certification program for service centers and refer to them through your website. Maybe even build a partnership of some sorts. Heck, maybe even open your own service center in Asia and sell refurbished cameras.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I think Ilford/Harman photo products are the best. I have used their B&W films and Papers for years. I must admit that I use Kodak color products and chemicals, but those guys at Ilford know what they are doing!

My best wishes to them all for the holiday season and in the coming year. Thanks guys.

PE

 

[Ralph Javins]

Good morning;

Bowzart brings up an applicable point. I agree with him in his philosophy and desire to support his local photography shops. I am trying to do that with our local shops out here in Latte Land. Please note the use of the phrase; "trying to do that."

It is a two way street, you shop owners. You need to be willing to work with the photographic consumers also.

When a shop salesman tells me to take my money and send it back East to one of the big photographic equipment vendors, or out to the internet, because I felt that the price for a piece of equipment he had was extravagant, eventually it becomes evident that I cannot support the shop. I did not tell him his lens was too expensive; I asked him why it was so expensive. When he was shown the advertisements showing the much lower price for that equipment from others is when he made the "suggestion" that I send my money elsewhere. I did. In fact, now I have two (2) of that very lens for just about two thirds (2/3) of the price he had on his sample. This does not seem to be the optimum way for a salesman to aid the shop "bottom line." By the way, that very same lens is still sitting in his shop for over a year now.

In another case, I went to a shop with the request that they order for me a current model of an item by a manufacturer they carried, but did not have in stock. They told me that they could not do that. My disbelief must have been obvious, but I accepted his statement. Yes, again, I did order the desired item from one of the big houses back East, or over the internet.

Possessing a desire to help keep our local shops in business is not always easy when the shops do not seem to be willing to participate with me in that process.