Ilford SFX and red windows

[TheFlyingCamera]

Can Ilford SFX quasi-infrared film be safely used in cameras that have a red window for the film advance? I'd like to try putting some through my 6x18 pinhole, but it only has a red window for film advance, and the Maco 820IR I tried with it was totally fogged by the red window through the backing paper.

 

[darkroommike]

You could make a cover for the window and only uncover it under subdued light when advancing the film. A lot of high speed panchrom films have the same issue with red windows.

 

[cowanw]

Can Ilford SFX quasi-infrared film be safely used in cameras that have a red window for the film advance? I'd like to try putting some through my 6x18 pinhole, but it only has a red window for film advance, and the Maco 820IR I tried with it was totally fogged by the red window through the backing paper.

No

 

[trendland]

Can Ilford SFX quasi-infrared film be safely used in cameras that have a red window for the film advance? I'd like to try putting some through my 6x18 pinhole, but it only has a red window for film advance, and the Maco 820IR I tried with it was totally fogged by the red window through the backing paper.

If you use 120 film the funktion of backing paper is to avoid any light.
If your film is exposed it has to guarantee this also (with some layers of it on the spole).
Comming to red windows : This window has no funktion today!
It was used as standard protection from cameras with no other closing mechanism - so it has to work 24/7.
But friends - if you store a 120 camera with film inside in direct sunlight to many
many hours (with red window protection)
you have to trust :
1) your camera of having no light leaks
2) the backing paper
3) not getting temperature problems

And the funktion of red window ?
It is just decoration from the 20th.
Same is to infrared film.
The spectrum of SFX is not the best.
But you obviously know this.
Rollei Retro80s is nearly the same or better just out of mind and cheaper.

with regards

 

[trendland]

Can Ilford SFX quasi-infrared film be safely used in cameras that have a red window for the film advance? I'd like to try putting some through my 6x18 pinhole, but it only has a red window for film advance, and the Maco 820IR I tried with it was totally fogged by the red window through the backing paper.

Sorry - have not read the second part orderly. You mentioned problems with Maco IR.
My sugestion :
- light leaks from the spool 35%
- light leaks from the camera 20% (reflections)
- bad Maco film 43 %
- red window leak 2%

with regards

 

[MattKing]

And the funktion of red window ?
It is just decoration from the 20th.

The only new camera (manufactured in 2016-7) that I own requires that I use the numbers on the backing paper and the red window(s) in order to advance the film properly.

Isn't it pretty?
It gives good results too.

I

I have an older roll of SFX that I should probably try it with.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The only camera I have right now that requires the red window advance is my pinhole. Which makes total sense since it's a wood box with a manual film advance.

 

[tedr1]

The red window in my folding Bessa fogs regular panchromatic film, this suggests that IR film would also be fogged.

 

[Svenedin]

I have red window cameras and have successfully used SFX but the red window camera I used has a sliding cover over the red window. Try some black insulating tape over the red window and remove it briefly when you advance the film.

Picture below is Rollei infrared but it was a red window camera (albeit it a camera that doesn't actually need the red window because it has a frame counter but nonetheless.....)

March Infrared print #1

• Svenedin
• Jun 9, 2016
• 5

8'x10" print from 6x6 120. Photo taken in March in bright sunny conditions. Also printed on...

 

[Sirius Glass]

The only camera I have right now that requires the red window advance is my pinhole. Which makes total sense since it's a wood box with a manual film advance.

So the fact that it is made of wood must enhance the Wood Effect, right?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Just about all the cameras with red windows were made when orthochromatic films were being used. I personally do no trust them for today's panchromatic films. When I use one of these older cameras I cover up the window with black electrical tape except when advancing the film. My Mamiya C3 series cameras have a metal slide for this purpose.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The pinhole camera has a brass disc with the serial number engraved to cover the red window when not advancing the film.

 

[mshchem]

Just about all the cameras with red windows were made when orthochromatic films were being used. I personally do no trust them for today's panchromatic films. When I use one of these older cameras I cover up the window with black electrical tape except when advancing the film. My Mamiya C3 series cameras have a metal slide for this purpose.

Ditto

 

[mshchem]

The only new camera (manufactured in 2016-7) that I own requires that I use the numbers on the backing paper and the red window(s) in order to advance the film properly.

Isn't it pretty?
It gives good results too.

I View attachment 189354
I have an older roll of SFX that I should probably try it with.

Lovely camera and print. This is what it's all about!

 

[cowanw]

I should not have been so brief. Won't the numbers show up, although the anti-halation layer will help? I suppose it depends on the strength of the exposure, I.E. bright sunlight vs being careful. But there was a reason the practice was discontinued. And the IR film is no less and no more sensitive to visible light than SFX. MACO IR 820c and MACO AURA are medium-speed black-and-white
films with panchromatic sensitisation and infrared sensitisation up to 850 nm.

 

[MattKing]

The downloaded image is actually a negative scan adjusted to look like an existing print.
The facsimile is okay, but certainly not perfect. Pinhole negatives print in an interesting way. It is hard to mimic but that scan is okay.
The camera actually has three red windows - one for each of the format choices. If anything is likely to reveal the answer to Scott's suitability questions, it would be it.

 

[Luckless]

I ran into a photographer who had a simple solution to the issue of the red window and fogging with modern films: He covered the red window and ballparked his advances with comfortable margins, and a simple chart to remind him how many turns based on how far along in the spool he was. He gave up something like 1/3 of his possible shots, but seemed happy with the process.

 

[Steve Smith]

If it comes with a backing paper with numbers, then the intention is that those numbers will be read through a window.

If the backing paper does its job properly, it should be ok.


Steve.

 

[pentaxuser]

The thread has had at least two positive replies from U.K. users to the effect that SFX has worked OK/ should work OK but these seem to have had no positive acknowledgement which I find is a pity

pentaxuser

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The thread has had at least two positive replies from U.K. users to the effect that SFX has worked OK/ should work OK but these seem to have had no positive acknowledgement which I find is a pity

pentaxuser

Thank you to the UK members who have posted that it SHOULD work. Happy now?

I'm still processing the feedback I've gotten here. Some of it I take with a hopeful grain of salt, some of it I categorically ignore because it's delivered with more than a soupcon of arrogance. At this point since nobody can say for certain, I'll just have to burn a few rolls and find out for myself.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

If it comes with a backing paper with numbers, then the intention is that those numbers will be read through a window.

If the backing paper does its job properly, it should be ok.


Steve.

You'd think, but the Maco 820c IR Aura backing paper had numbers on it. And it fogged like San Francisco Bay at sunset.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I ran into a photographer who had a simple solution to the issue of the red window and fogging with modern films: He covered the red window and ballparked his advances with comfortable margins, and a simple chart to remind him how many turns based on how far along in the spool he was. He gave up something like 1/3 of his possible shots, but seemed happy with the process.

That isn't really a good option for my pinhole camera - there's only four shots per roll, and the spacing is not especially loose (4x 6x18cm negatives on a roll of 120). So the margin for error is not in my favor, and when I'm burning that much film per shot, and my exposures can run into the minutes, I'd rather not waste time or film on making photos that I have to throw away.

 

[trendland]

If it comes with a backing paper with numbers, then the intention is that those numbers will be read through a window.

If the backing paper does its job properly, it should be ok.


Steve.

Yes that is exact my oppinium. But it may depend from some additional circumstances - as we can see here from others experiences with some problems.
I have in use an old Bessa with red window, some old Agfa with red window AND cover mechanism.But I also use an Agfa with clear window and without closing.
I never had any problem with all kind of films. (Most E6).
But I have to state I shot 120 films within one shooting to the end of film.
I can't remember to have a film some weeks loaded.
And if you would do so I strongly doubt the red window protection will help very much.Because of daylight within many many hours through the window.
Backing paper is absolute light save but if you have space between the camera and films /paper ( simple cameras without pressure plate ) reflecting light will find its way. But from my experience it depends to the dosis.
I also don't remember light leaks from a 120 spool. Also with bad wired films.
But I have to state I am very carefull to reloaded films with much respect - and I am fast.........I possible can imagine problems with any exposed 120 spool if you handle it to 45 min in full sunlight because of smalest spare from every spool.
So it might be with red window problems.
A question of dosis. Tape will minimize it to a rest of 0,00237 % danger.

with regards

 

[trendland]

The only new camera (manufactured in 2016-7) that I own requires that I use the numbers on the backing paper and the red window(s) in order to advance the film properly.

Isn't it pretty?
It gives good results too.

I View attachment 189354
I have an older roll of SFX that I should probably try it with.

Sorry to state from the 20th.......
Yes indeed very nice.

with regards

 

[Svenedin]

Thank you to the UK members who have posted that it SHOULD work. Happy now?

I'm still processing the feedback I've gotten here. Some of it I take with a hopeful grain of salt, some of it I categorically ignore because it's delivered with more than a soupcon of arrogance. At this point since nobody can say for certain, I'll just have to burn a few rolls and find out for myself.

Red windows can be a bit more complicated than just a red window. My Zeiss Ikon cameras also have some felt around the edges of the red window where the hole meets the pressure plate. The idea is to prevent the light from leaking beyond the hole. If the backing paper is doing its job than the film should be fine but if the red window "leaks" light beyond the small area that enables you to read the backing numbers then it could fog film. It would surely reduce the chances of fogging to cover the window except when winding on the film.