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Ilford SFX 200 with IR or red filter?

ziyanglai

Hi everyone. Just decided to try out the Ilford SFX 200.. The camera store people told me that it is not a "real" infrared film, just extended sensitivity. So I have a red and an IR filter, which one will give more infrared like results and how should I meter it? Also, the film says load in subdued light, not complete darkness, so this film can just be processed as regular B&W and not special infrared processing?
 

Hatchetman

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r72 filter will give it a pretty nice IR effect. remember in camera meter might not work correctly. I use sunny sixteen rule then add four stops exposure. maybe five. develop as you would any B&W film.
 

02Pilot

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I'm just starting to experiment with this too. Ilford has an extensive data sheet on SFX that gives some good info. For the Red 25 filter I'm using that document indicates a 1.5 stop compensation IIRC. I would suspect that you'd get a fuller IR effect with the appropriate IR filter.
 

MattKing

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I don't think you will get anything approaching the Wood IR effect with a Red 25 filter.
 

DWThomas

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I shot one roll to test it and was fairly pleased with it. That is to say, with an IR filter it produced more effect than I expected, but you definitely need an IR filter if you want Wood effect. I shot with an assortment of filters down to the classic 89B, which I have read is about a 695nm cutoff. The suggestion of 4 to 5 stops sounds about right; I would start at EI 6 for a first pass.

One of these days I'll shoot some more.
 

pentaxuser

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I don't think you will get anything approaching the Wood IR effect with a Red 25 filter.
That's been my experience also with SFX and certainly Ilford do not claim otherwise. Blue water and skies will go quite black with the Red 25 but the silvery appearance of "green foliage associated with "IR " is missing

pentaxuser
 

Brian C. Miller

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I've shot a lot of SFX 200. For IR effect, you will need either a B+W 092 or Hoya R72. For a while Ilford sold their own gelatin filter for it, which was about the same as the B+W or Hoya.

The best subjects are deciduous trees, grass, and stuff like that. Pines and other conifers will give results from grey to black.

Start with an ISO 6, and then bracket. Your mileage will definitely vary.
 
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OP

ziyanglai

Hey everyone. I started shooting this morning. I forgot to mention that it was an IR 950 filter. After I finished the whole roll, I just realized that the SFX200 says, "extended sensitivity to 720nm", and this is a 950 filter! So did I just shoot a roll of blank frames??? I'll still developed it in a few days and see what happens.
 

paul_c5x4

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I have an Ilford SFX200 gel filter - Comparing it to some cheap Chinese filters, it is a pretty close match for the R72, if anything, slightly lighter. Certainly a lot darker than a 680nm filter.

You don't say if it was 35mm or 120 you've been shooting - I'd suggest snipping a short length off the roll and developing it. If it is blank (which it most likely is), reload the camera and go out shooting with either a 680nm or 720nm filter.
 
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ziyanglai

I was shooting 35mm.. My local store only carries SFX in 35mm. I wasn't going to buy it at first, but I decided to buy it and dig out my old 35mm that I haven't used in almost a year and try it. I think I'll just develop the whole roll.. It's probably going to blank anyway... Don't have much hope
 

StoneNYC

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I don't think you will get any image, the filter you have is to high in the scale. But I could be wrong, I did an IR test myself, I'll have to find the thread.
 

Newt_on_Swings

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I would just pull the leader and reshoot the roll. At best you get another chance for 36 exposures, at worst you get some double exposures. Better than getting a blank roll back that you also paid to process.
 

StoneNYC

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Can't find the actual info... I tried the RolllieIR which has a similar spectrum. It showed me a few things, for one the R25 does nothing.

Two the B+W 092 is not the same as the R72 filter and the R72 works better, the 092 has a graduated spectral pass while the R72 has a steep spectral pass point. (I'm not using the right words but hope it sort of makes sense).

I would have to check my full notes but here's a link to the different images, i believe that 6 stops under was my preferred EI for the Rollie, I would assume it's similar for the SFX to get some good IR effect but I've never had much luck with getting good IR with SFX, though I've only shot 2 rolls so far.

PS anyone want to buy a brand new B+W 77mm 092 filter? Haha!

Here's a link to the test foliage, I was also seeing what was IR sensitive... Not much...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/njjb7jqvzlsfnsc/AAD1Kgt-8f9nH8aLlF1Edcj9a

I'll have to give you the details for the images later, I can't find the thread where I posted them.
 

dorff

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Hi, I have B+W 092 and 093 filters. The 092 is definitely the one to use for this film. I got decent results around EI 12, but you have to determine for yourself what EI you prefer. It is also developer dependent, so Xtol would give a different (higher) EI to HC-110 for example. The 092 is a very dark red filter, which also extends slightly into IR. It matches the sensitivity of SFX quite well. It is not a true IR filter like the 093, since it does pass some visible light, enough to be able to frame your shot through an SLR.

As an aside and more or less irrelevant to your post, I have used these filters on my IR modified D70. The 093 yields a monochrome image in the red and blue channels. No colour info whatsoever. The 092 yields a false-colour image with enough colour information to get some very interesting results. That tells you that you can play a bit with the 092's spectral response on different emulsions, while the 093 leaves no room for manoeuvring. I have not tried the Hoya R72, but it seems to be similar to the 092. Apparently, the 092 is the better filter for deep red/IR on film purposes, while the R72 is fine for false-colour on modified digital bodies. But this is hear-say - do some tests of your own if you can.

A nice way to shoot IR is to use a TLR with the filter only over the taking lens. That way you focus and frame in visible light, while the photo is made with the filter in place. You have to adjust the focus slightly, but if you are within hyperfocal limits you will be fine.
 

Scandium

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I use a B+W 091 (29 red) filter for hand held shooting. The Wood effect depends quite a bit on the type of foliage. Sycamore trees and grape vines reflect more in this near-IR region. Grass and conifers render only slightly lighter than normal. Here are a few examples:

Grape vines
http://gascherb.zenfolio.com/torcello/h3d39c8ae#h3d39c8ae

Sycamore and oak trees
http://gascherb.zenfolio.com/plazakc/h290ef49f#h290ef49f

Conifers and grass
http://gascherb.zenfolio.com/torcello/h2e2e1674#h2e2e1674

No foliage and overcast day
http://gascherb.zenfolio.com/venezia/h15985a93#h15985a93

The 091 filter produces subtle results most of the time. It allows an EI of 50, reasonable for hand held shooting outdoors in daylight. It's nothing like Kodak's High Speed IR, but we don't have many choices, these days.

Glenn
 

StoneNYC

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All your digital discussion is off topic for this forum so I won't comment on that.

But what you said about the B+W 092 and R72 is totally backward, the R72 will give you much stronger IR effects than the 092 with currently available IR products. I own both (sadly) because I took someone's ill educated advice and bought the 092 first, thinking it was the same as the R72 but it's not. As I said the 092 is graduated, so you get a lot more visible light than the R72 so the IR effect is lessened.

Since you don't own the R72 you obviously haven't tested it so you shouldn't comment on it's effects. And I don't want the OP to be misled like I was and purchase the 092 which is a poor filter for getting IR effects, especially with today's weak IR available films.

Furthermore again, digital discussion is very off topic here and I'm not sure why you even mentioned it.
 
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DWThomas

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Well, with the Rollei IR film, I found that a 760 nm filter required about five or six stops more exposure than an IR720. If I extrapolate that to a 950, I suspect one could save money by using a solid aluminum plate instead of a filter!
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I shot SFX extensively last summer in the hot, Saskatchewan sun, with an R72. Even though IR effect was so so, I really liked the look. My fridge will always have a few 120 rolls in it.
 

dorff

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But what you said about the B+W 092 and R72 is totally backward, the R72 will give you much stronger IR effects than the 092 with currently available IR products.

I stand corrected. I was speaking from info a friend gave me, but I did qualify it as hear-say. The point was that he should test both if he can. I have only used the 092 and 093, and I did say that clearly.

Furthermore again, digital discussion is very off topic here and I'm not sure why you even mentioned it.

I mentioned it because it relates to the spectral windows of the filters in question. It is not a digital discussion per se, but a comment on how much of the spectral window lies in the visible band. Sorry if that did not come across clearly. The 093 is a pure IR filter, and I doubt whether it has any remaining analogue use with the films now available.
 

Axle

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From personal experience, all you'll need for SFX200 is a Red 25 filter, anything more is overkill really.
 

StoneNYC

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From personal experience, all you'll need for SFX200 is a Red 25 filter, anything more is overkill really.

In my tests the Red25 had little effect at all, and technically it shouldn't. I'm confused why you think this is true?
 

pentaxuser

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In my tests the Red25 had little effect at all, and technically it shouldn't. I'm confused why you think this is true?

How do you define "little effect"? If you mean little wood effect" then OK although there is just a hint of a silvery glow but it will certainly give black skies and water which I wouldn't define as little. On a normal film with a Red 25 I can get nowhere near the "black look" that I can with SFX

pentaxuser
 

StoneNYC

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With my tests it gave the same effect that an R25 would give with any normal film, I saw no increase in IR effect at all....
 

StoneNYC

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Here I found the details...


Mamiya 7 IR test - Rollie 400 IR all f/22

1 normal f/22@1/15
2 092 - f/22@4s
3 R72 - f/22@4s
4 092+R72 stacked 4s
5 092+R72 stacked 8s
6 Red25 1/4s
7 R72 1s
8 R72 2s
9 R72 8s
10 R72 20s

Link to the whole images in order...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/njjb7jqvzlsfnsc/AAD1Kgt-8f9nH8aLlF1Edcj9a

Link to a cropped area of the images that shows IR effect...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v3fgcvwdzwn0lcb/AAAofiLBeU2jIseUJSXiYZlma

Notice that in 2 and 3, the 2 is over exposed because it let's in too much visible light.