Ilford Rapid Fixer: 7 Days Storage Only??

[RattyMouse]

Sorry for this idiotic noob question but I'm really confused. Reading the label to my new bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer says quite clearly that the diluted product at 1+4 has a shelf life of only 7 days. I am shocked by this as this is so short. I cannot consume 5 liters of this fixer in only a week. My Kodafix solution lasted me over 2 months before I tossed it.

Am I missing something here? It is hard to interpret the label any other way except that the dilution is only good for 7 days.

Should I just dilute as needed and then throw away after each session.

Thanks for helping me "fix" this problem!!

 

[Tom1956]

That sounds screwy to me, too.

 

[karl]

Working strength Ilford Rapid Fix solutions:

6 months in full tightly capped bottles
2 months in a tank or dish/tray with a floating lid
1 month in a half full tightly capped bottle.
7 days in an open dish/tray.

 

[wildbill]

read the instructions a second time.

 

[PhotoJim]

Working solution keeps several months in a closed container, assuming you don't exhaust it via volume of materials you put through it.

 

[RattyMouse]

read the instructions a second time.

"7 days (1+4)."

What am I missing?

 

[RattyMouse]

Working solution keeps several months in a closed container, assuming you don't exhaust it via volume of materials you put through it.

Several months would be fine for me. But the directions clearly say 7 days.

 

[karl]

Are you keeping the working solution in an open tray the whole time? For a week? That seems odd.

Mix up a liters worth, process some film or make some prints. Pour it back into the bottle. It lasts a long time. I generally exhaust it long before Ilford's recommended keeping times.

 

[RattyMouse]

See page 5:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427111531653.pdf

7 days in an open tray. Up to 6 months in a full, capped bottle. Note this assumes a fresh (unused) working solution. Who "stores" working solutions in open trays anyway?

In any case I really don't see what the problem is. You can easily mix working solutions from the concentrate as needed.

To be clear here, I'm fixing film, not paper.

It was my understanding that people tended to reuse fixer. I am VERY new to film processing so am learning. The directions that taught me said to re-use fixer. My first gallon of fixer (Kodafix) was used around 2.5 months processing 15 rolls or more. I was just practicing with that gallon and now am starting off with a new supply of Ilford Rapid Fixer. I was going to dilute the entire 1 liter of fluid, and then use it for as long as possible, hopefully for 2-3 months, assuming that the fixer was not used up by film processing.

Then I read that Ilford gives diluted solutions a shelf life of only 7 days. It says that directly on the label on the bottle!

I hope readers can understand why I am so confused.

I did not want to use Kodafix again because that is a hardening fixer.

It seems like an enormous waste to use fixer only once. Am I wrong?

 

[RattyMouse]

Are you keeping the working solution in an open tray the whole time? For a week? That seems odd.

Mix up a liters worth, process some film or make some prints. Pour it back into the bottle. It lasts a long time. I generally exhaust it long before Ilford's recommended keeping times.

Ilford says that the keeping time of a 1+4 dilution is 7 days. I cannot exhaust a liter in only 7 days.

 

[karl]

I generally mix 1 liter of working solution at a time (1+4). Ilford recommends that will fix 24 rolls. I used it for 20 sheets (8x10)/rolls then mix a new batch. So, with a 1 liter bottle of concentrate I can get 5 1 liter batches of working solution. That's 100 8x10 sheets or rolls of film. The concentrate will last quite a while. Ilford says 6 months.

 

[Newt_on_Swings]

You can store it much longer than that in a bottle. I keep it mixed in 1.75 L plastic bottles I get from my tropicana oj, diluted 1:4 I roughly estimated a capacity of about 40 rolls of 35mm 36 exp. according to ilfords data with a fair safety margin. Works well for me and I change out bottles often after about 2 uses when they are marked up on either side with tallies to 40.

 

[MattKing]

To be clear here, I'm fixing film, not paper.

It was my understanding that people tended to reuse fixer. I am VERY new to film processing so am learning. The directions that taught me said to re-use fixer. My first gallon of fixer (Kodafix) was used around 2.5 months processing 15 rolls or more. I was just practicing with that gallon and now am starting off with a new supply of Ilford Rapid Fixer. I was going to dilute the entire 1 liter of fluid, and then use it for as long as possible, hopefully for 2-3 months, assuming that the fixer was not used up by film processing.

Then I read that Ilford gives diluted solutions a shelf life of only 7 days. It says that directly on the label on the bottle!

I hope readers can understand why I am so confused.

I did not want to use Kodafix again because that is a hardening fixer.

It seems like an enormous waste to use fixer only once. Am I wrong?

I've highlighted part of your problem.

For film, you need to have at least two bottles.

One bottle is the concentrated stock solution that you purchased from the retailer.

The second bottle is the container you are going to use for working solution - in my case I use a bottle that is 1.25 litre in size.

What you do is you take your empty working strength bottle and mix up enough working strength fixer to fill it. In the case of my bottle, I take 0.25 litres of the concentrated stock from the Ilford bottle and add it to 1.0 litre of water - together they fill my 1.25 litre working strength fixer bottle.

This leaves me with an Ilford bottle that is partly filled with concentrated stock fixer and my completely filled 1.25 litre working strength fixer bottle.

The working solution fixer comfortably fixes 16 or more rolls - I check the activity with regular clip tests. In between uses, the 1.25 litre working strength fixer bottle remains filled and tightly capped.

When the working solution has fixed all the rolls that it is going to fix, I take the solution to my friends who recycle the silver, clean out the bottle, and make new working strength fixer using more of the concentrated stock from the Ilford bottle.

If I am concerned with how long the Ilford bottle remains partly filled with concentrate, I will sometimes decant the remaining stock to a smaller, completely filled replacement bottle.

 

[Tom1956]

Use it as long as it clears the film and doesn't smell "stinky" when you take the top off the bottle. Then use your second bath, which you should be doing anyway. You'll be fine. I don't believe that 1-week bit. Fixer doesn't go bad in a week just sitting in the bottle. I don't care what Ilford says on that.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you read the recommendations in the instruction sheet about replenishment, you can keep the solution going up to a year, depending on how much film you process.

 

[RattyMouse]

Thanks everyone, and specifically Matt. I'm going to follow your procedure and use this fixer in the same manner. I'm now off to the lab to prepare my dilution.

God I love the help you can get here at APUG!!!

 

[RattyMouse]

How bizarre! I peeled back the front label of my bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer and the storage life that I posted on page 1 of this thread is for Ilford Paper Fixer!!! How strange is that? The front label says Ilford Rapid Fixer and the (page 2) dilution, use, and storage instructions are for Ilford Paper Fixer.

I'm an MS degreed Chemist and find this product label enormously confusing!

Anyway, my dilution is made and hopefully I'll be in the "lab" tonight.

 

[Newt_on_Swings]

Rapid fixer can be used for both films and paper. It's just usually diluted differently 1:4 for films and 1:9 for paper.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

See page 5:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427111531653.pdf

7 days in an open tray. Up to 6 months in a full, capped bottle. Note this assumes a fresh (unused) working solution. Who "stores" working solutions in open trays anyway?

In any case I really don't see what the problem is. You can easily mix working solutions from the concentrate as needed.

RattyMouse,

Above is the answer to your questions; all of them. Read the Ilford document carefully and understand it fully and you won't have to keep repeating the misinformation that you have somehow acquired. You are a chemist and have an MS, so you should have no problems doing this.

Then you won't have to ask questions like you have above, repeatedly. I know you are a beginner and that English is not your mother tongue, but you can certainly make it through the Ilford document with a bit of time and a dictionary if needed. It will be well worth the effort!

Just to recap: In the linked-to document Ilford states that Rapid fix can be used at two different dilutions for paper and one for film. The storage time of a working solutions depends on the container. In an open tray exposed to air (ergo, oxidation), the lifespan is only seven days. In a full, tightly-stoppered bottle the lifespan is six months. There are other lifespans for half-full bottles etc. Read the document to find out. There are also lifespans given for the concentrate.

Unlike powdered fixers, you do not have to mix the entire container of liquid concentrate to working strength at one time. Mix a volume of working solution that you can use easily in the lifespan of the storage method you are using. Easy.

@Michael,
I "store" fixer in open trays a lot. Let's say I've got a hundred sheets of film to develop. That takes me about three days usually. I'll mix two trays of 500ml each and use two-bath fixing, leaving the fixer stand in the trays the whole time and mixing a new second bath when needed. If I interrupt my developing for a day or two for some reason, then a tray of working solution fixer could be sitting out five days or so. Similarly, when printing, I just leave the fixer trays out all the time, full (and the stop too). I rarely have to toss fixer because of lifespan; I usually hit the capacity well before the seven days are up.

Best,

Doremus

 

[nsurit]

Does anyone use Hypo-check or am I the only duck in that pond. Oh, and I do use Ilford rapid fix again and again. Bill Barber

 

[MattKing]

I would generally be in agreement with Doremus, except for one observation. The problem with powdered fixers is that they are not Rapid fixers. For those of us who have tight space constraints and who have to devote meaningful amounts of time to set up and take down each time we develop anything, the time and space savings that go with Rapid fixers are quite important.
That being said, it would be a good idea to add a packet or two of powdered fixer to your next order. The packets store easily, and keep for a very long time. Perfect for when you unexpectedly run out of fixer, and your next order is not going to arrive in time for the weekend.
When your volumes get higher, the larger bottles of fixer may start to make sense .
Have fun!

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I would generally be in agreement with Doremus, except for one observation. The problem with powdered fixers is that they are not Rapid fixers. For those of us who have tight space constraints and who have to devote meaningful amounts of time to set up and take down each time we develop anything, the time and space savings that go with Rapid fixers are quite important.
That being said, it would be a good idea to add a packet or two of powdered fixer to your next order. The packets store easily, and keep for a very long time. Perfect for when you unexpectedly run out of fixer, and your next order is not going to arrive in time for the weekend.
When your volumes get higher, the larger bottles of fixer may start to make sense .
Have fun!

Matt,

No disagreement between us at all. I was just pointing out that one of the advantages of liquid concentrate fixers (which are usually the "rapid" variety) is that you don't have to mix the entire volume all at once, like you do with powdered fixers. Yes, powdered fixers are not "rapid," i.e., sodium thiosulfate based, and need longer fixing times. The faster fixing times and the ability to be able to mix only the amount you need are two advantages of liquid rapid fixers.

Best,

Doremus

 

[cmacd123]

How bizarre! I peeled back the front label of my bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer and the storage life that I posted on page 1 of this thread is for Ilford Paper Fixer!!!

I know the Rapid fixersold in Canada comes with that ilford paper fixer label and When It came up here at APUG, Simon of Ilford said that the label was in error and they were going to "Fix" it when the label was next redesigned. I don't know if that is the case elsewhere.

An Case the 7 days life is for an Open Tray, exposed to the air. The 6 months figure is for a full tightly capped bottle. Some old newspaper labs probably did keep a tray of fixer handy in the darkroom so they could make a print on a moments notice. Pro-labs may also have fixer out in a tray all day every day. Get the Data sheet for Ilford rapid fixer from the Ilford web site.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006130218312091.pdf‎

 

[GarageBoy]

So is my 1/2 bottle from 8 months ago dead?

 

[miha]

So is my 1/2 bottle from 8 months ago dead?

Test it and you'll know.