Ilford priced to leave Japan

[ericdan]

Ever since Ilford simply doubled their prices over night last year I started importing their film and developer from the U.S.
I just had a closer look at their pricing in Japan and it's simply ridiculous! This has nothing to do with exchange rate or inflation. Unless some new taxes are being imposed that weren't there before, there is no reason for this price difference. The FX-rate doesn't move this much, and if it did we'd have bigger worries than buying film and chemicals.

Is Ilford trying to move out of Japan?
With this pricing nobody will buy their stuff in Japan.

Picked a few examples at the current rate:
Ilford DD-X: $17.95 vs $66.14 (3.7x)
Microphen: $6.50 vs $31.36 (4.8x)
Rapid Fixer: $9.90 vs $21.56 (2.2x)
HP5 Plus: $4.65 vs $9.90 (2.2x)
Delta 3200 135: $8.95 vs $15.00 (1.68x)

 

[AgX]

In 2013 when prices about doubled in Japan for Ilford bulk film, Simon Galley gave a very evasive reply, referring to import costs...

 

[ericdan]

then I would expect all prices to rise evenly. Why only Ilford, Kodak has raised prices but not like this.
Haven't noticed any other discrepancies like this in foreign goods I consume here.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I was a diehard Ilford user until prices went up last year. Ilford was never the cheapest option, but I liked what they did and wanted to support them. However, since the price increases I have been actively using and trying out other films and chemicals. Like you, I couldn't understand why the prices went up so significantly - initially I thought perhaps it was done on the Japanese end to protect the Japanese companies (most notably Fujifilm, but the smaller companies as well) by having lower prices, but now I don't know. Either way, it's frustrating.

 

[mnemosyne]

I don't think Mobberly is setting the retail prices in Japan, these price decisions are made at the importer/distributor level. That is Cybergraphics in the case of Japan. I agree such price movements cannot be explained by x-rate changes alone. In these days when it is so easy to compare world wide prices of a product, such extreme price differences without thorough explanation will be a major source of mistrust and discomfort among users and will not benefit a company in the long run.

Across Europe price difference are mostly negligible or moderate. But I know some examples of similar striking differences. For example, recently a bag of Kodak HCA in Germany is four times more expensive than in the UK (20 EUR vs 5 EUR), which is really strange as other Kodak chemicals are priced similar or are even a bit cheaper in Germany ...

 

[miha]

SNIP which is really strange as other Kodak chemicals are priced similar or are even a bit cheaper in Germany ...

Not quite I'm afraid. Ilfotec HC, my favourite developer, is over 50 EUR in Germany. Ilford paper is also much deared outside of the UK.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I'd look into tariffs and trade agreements as a possible cause. Perhaps Japan is imposing significant tariffs on imported manufactured goods from the EU? Or maybe specifically targeting the UK post-Brexit? Lord knows the Japanese have been very willing to protect domestic industries for domestic consumption.

 

[mshchem]

I would think the prices at Ilford's back door are the same for everyone in USD. It's the distribution and tariffs that determine the costs. It may be as simple as the distributor using prices as a marketing strategy. In the US there are 3 or 4 big online retailers that set the market price. The small local shops cannot buy product at a low enough price to compete. US has no VAT and the retail sales taxes are not applied to online sellers outside of the buyer's state. So in US no 17% VAT no sales tax of 7% No protection for the smaller retailer. I can buy 12 rolls of HP-5 Plus 120 for $49 US delivered to my door from B&H . Of course the USA is currently running a 800 billion dollar a year trade deficit (over 500 billion with China)
It is almost impossible to find chemistry and film at local shops and it is double the price of online sellers.
Unchecked capitalism at it's finest.
Best Regards, Mike

 

[DREW WILEY]

The yen isn't exactly in good shape at the moment. But official importers sometimes do strange things to either game or buffer profit structure,
sometimes wisely, sometimes stupidly.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

I could say the same thing about Fujifilm prices here in the USA. The cost of 400H vs Portra 400 is completely absurd. Ilford prices aren't too bad here.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The oddest one was Nikon USA. Their small camera stuff was distributed competitively; but they survey instruments distribution was kept at rigid fixed pricing no matter what. Consequently, that division sold next to nothing in this country until somebody finally listened. Fujifilm USA has been
outright stubborn at times, forcing people to bring in certain films gray market. I could say the same thing for Makita USA, whom I have dealt with
for years. They have all kinds of incredible products I could sell like pancakes, but the current US management only wants to emphasize the Chinese
made junk. That's what happens when geeks and bean counters take over, even if they have track records of bankruptcies behind them.

 

[Colin Corneau]

Tariffs are a good bet for pricing inside Japan, although prices for paper especially took a huge leap in the past few months.

New management structure at Ilford -- in my experience, that means the suits are "improving" things. Accountants + power = total shite.

 

[mnemosyne]

Not quite I'm afraid. Ilfotec HC, my favourite developer, is over 50 EUR in Germany. Ilford paper is also much deared outside of the UK.

Ilfotec HC is not a Kodak product, but I see your point. OTOH, Kodak HC110 is around 24 EUR in Germany and around 30 EUR in UK ...

 

[miha]

Ilfotec HC is not a Kodak product, but I see your point. OTOH, Kodak HC110 is around 24 EUR in Germany and around 30 EUR in UK ...

Very true... silly me. I got the Ilford products and their price discrepancy in mind when writing reply post.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Way back when..... Japan imposed high penalty taxes on photo goods and cars in order to boost local production of said products.

PE

 

[DREW WILEY]

A lot depends on what people are willing to pay, or accustomed to pay. I sell German tool lines here at lower prices than in Germany!

 

[dourbalistar]

I was in Japan last month, and also had film sticker shock. Big retailers like Yodobashi in Tokyo (Shinjuku) certainly have an impressive selection of different stocks to choose from, but the prices were steep. Even Fujifilm stocks seemed quite expensive to me. I only picked up a few 3-packs of Fujifilm stocks that are not available in the US market (Superia Premium 400, Venus 800, Natura 1600). The only low-cost exception seemed to be the ¥184 Fujicolor Industrial 100 at Kitamura in Shinjuku.

On a positive note, I had no fuss or hassle when I requested that my film be hand checked (instead of sent through the X-ray machine) at security on my departure from Haneda International Airport. Perhaps that can be chalked up to a very polite and accommodating Japanese culture.

 

[Diapositivo]

As far as I know, Italian motorbikes are priced very expensively in Japan as well. And Harley-Davidson motorbikes are absurdly expensive in Italy.
I can understand the logic.
The importer is going to sell little numbers in any case. He has got an inventory risk in a niche market, and a small profit on a commoditized good.
What does he do?
He prices his goods as a luxury good. If Ilford film costs that much, it must be the "champagne" of films, some people will reckon.

Now on the risk-reward.

You have a good which costs you 90, and you sell it at 100. That's 10 or 11% profit.
Then you decede to market it as a "boutique" good. You raise the price to 140 (maybe in steps).
Your cost is always 90, but now your profit per-unit is 50, or 55% profit.

You raised the price by 40%, but that raises your unitary profits by 500% (55% being five times 11%).

The rise in prices will certainly lower the units you sold but, unless the drop in sale is 5/6, or 83%, you end up with a higher profit.

Even if your unit sales drop by 40 or 50%, i.e. enormously, your profits are still up.

Plus, you have less inventory risk, and you can build, in the long run, a "luxury image" of your product.

If you stick to this strategy in the long run, that can lead to nice rewards.

You and the original manufacturer which distributes through you (Ilford, Ducati, Harley-Davidson etc.) probably will agree on this change of strategy when it is evident that competition on price on the local market is not any more feasible, or will not for some year-long horizon.

So you take the road on the "boutique" flair of your product.

That presumes parallel import is not easily performed and is not going to disrupt your strategy.

 

[pentaxuser]

I suspect only Ilford/Pemberstone can provide us with the truth as to what may be the reasons for the large price increases in Japan and who are the initiators of said increases but will they?

If I was the new owner of Ilford then I'd be concerned as to how easily a reputation of honest dealing that Ilford gained here over several years of having a presence on APUG can disappear very quickly as evidenced by phrases of "suits and accountants" but that's just me.

I look forward to a response from Pemberstone but more in hope than expectation.

The good news has to be that the GBP to U.S. dollar and euro rate exchange rate has dropped so much that if I were in the euro zone or in the U.S. I'd expect some price reductions in Ilford products in the near future

Retailers in both territories must be paying less in their respective currencies for Ilford products so will pass on the savings to their customers to increase sales, won't they?

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

It is probably something similar to the recent price increases for Kodak black and white chemistry.

Kodak Alaris increased their wholesale price to (Canadian?) distributors by 20%. Those distributors increased their wholesale prices to retailers even more - possibly due to currency issues. Retail prices to the consumer are now up 50 - 70%.

As Kodak Alaris and Harman use the same manufacturers in Germany ....

 

[ericdan]

I could say the same thing about Fujifilm prices here in the USA. The cost of 400H vs Portra 400 is completely absurd. Ilford prices aren't too bad here.

that may very well be true, but what I am saying is that only ilford is outrageously expensive. If it was a foreign vs local thing then I would expect Kodak to be priced similarly high.

 

[ericdan]

Way back when..... Japan imposed high penalty taxes on photo goods and cars in order to boost local production of said products.

PE

and they only did that to photo goods from the UK, not the US?

 

[AgX]

Custom duties depend on country of origin. That is why trade treaties are negotiated...

But there is no reason so far for Japan to have raised duties for goods from the EU.

 

[ericdan]

that may be the explanation.
that being said I assume it would've somehow made news, at least here, if import taxes on photo goods doubled and quadrupled overnight.
At least Ilford could've said something about it.
Microphen costs 5 times as much here!!

As of now, the UK is still in the EU and I don't see the same discrepancy for the european stuff being sold at silversalt.jp.
His prices are very much in-line with what I see in Europe and the US.

 

[AgX]

Just not the explanation. There is no reason to think that the price increase is due to increased duties. And even if so, how much must duties have risen to explain a doubling of prices?