Ilford PAN F 50 Plus and Rodinal - HELP

[MarcoGiardini]

i have developed today a 120 film (pan f 50 plus) in rodinal 1+25 for 6 minutes. After the stop bath and fix i have opened the tank and found the film totally transparent.
I have no more PAN F at home and i cannot test with the Rodinal i have at home.
Does any of you know or at least has an idea on the reason that caused this problem?
Thanks

marco

 

[Casey Kidwell]

Can you read the Ilford on the sides?

 

[MarcoGiardini]

Can you read the Ilford on the sides?

not at all. totally transparent.

 

[RobertV]

If you have film markers on it, your problem is in the camera.
If your film is really totally blank you switched the sequence of development.
Rodinal in 1+25 will always work because the lifetime of it's concentrate is over 10 years. So this developer will never fail.

Sorry about your loss......

 

[RobertV]

Just a hint for the next development. Mark your bottles clearly and put a different colored plastic tape on it. I do this for over 40 years: Green=developer, Red = stop, Yellow = fixer. In this way you will never make this mistake again

 

[MarcoGiardini]

If you have film markers on it, your problem is in the camera.
If your film is really totally blank you switched the sequence of development.
Rodinal in 1+25 will always work because the lifetime of it's concentrate is over 10 years. So this developer will never fail.

Sorry about your loss......

the sequence was right, totally sure about it.
The fix and the stop were fresh, just made. Rodinal was open since 2 or 3 years. I never use it, or very seldom and i never use the PanF+.
But i have never got a transparent film. Never. And i am not new to darkroom and film processing.!

 

[MarcoGiardini]

Just a hint for the next development. Mark your bottles clearly and put a different colored plastic tape on it. I do this for over 40 years: Green=developer, Red = stop, Yellow = fixer. In this way you will never make this mistake again

I do it already and I'm sure i have not made any mistake in the process. Nor inverted the order of the chemicals.
In 2 frames i can see a very light image, far too light to print it.

 

[MarcoGiardini]

i have done a simply water bath for 2 minutes before the rodinal. And i have prepared the rodinal bath at the beginning. the rodinal bath was ready in a small tank while the stop and the fixer were in big bottles under the table. I'm 100% sure i have not inverted the chemicals. 100%. Even 120%

 

[RobertV]

If you have used the original Rodinal / Agfa / A&O / CMS R09 one shot it's impossible. If you have the R09 Calbe (old Rodinal) it can be finished within 2 years.

And indeed Rodinal will colorize with all emulsions. If not somehow you put in the fixer first.

(or somebody deactivated your Rodinal).

 

[RobertV]

i have done a simply water bath for 2 minutes before the rodinal.

I hope it was water.........

(or somebody deactivated your Rodinal).

BTW Ilford is NOT recommending a pre-soak for their films.
So in my opinion, an unnecessary extra step in the processing.

 

[MarcoGiardini]

Was water. Believe me. I'm sure about the order of chemicals. Must be something else

 

[RobertV]

Well, maybe a contamination deactivated your Rodinal. I am using this stuff up from 1968 and I had never seen any failure myself with THIS developer.

 

[jeffreyg]

Was the film advancing in the camera? Maybe it was never exposed.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[brucemuir]

Was the film advancing in the camera? Maybe it was never exposed.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

you would still get edge markings/identifiers

only time this happened to me (and I swear it was only once ) was when I mixed up the order of the fix and dev

 

[RobertV]

Apart from the loss of the film:

http://www.marcogiardini.com/

Really good photos!

 

[Colin Corneau]

No writing on the film edges means developer was prevented from working, somehow.

I've no doubt you are experienced with B&W darkroom work, but based on this fact alone it's undeniable what's happened...'how' is another matter. Anyway, sorry about that, FWIW this is my favorite combo and is just terrific. You choose well!

 

[MarcoGiardini]

Apart from the loss of the film:

http://www.marcogiardini.com/

Really good photos!

Thanks Robert I'm glad you like them
;-)

 

[erikg]

All most certain to have been a processing problem. If there is a faint image then the developer was compromised in some way: mixed at the wrong dilution, not mixed enough, mixed with something other than water or contaminated by something. Could the temp be way off? If you have a scrap of undeveloped film you can test the developer with that. It may not answer the question as to what happened with the Pan-f, but at least you will know if the rest of the bottle is still good or not.

 

[A49]

If you have the R09 Calbe (old Rodinal) it can be finished within 2 years.

Robert, please don´t discredit the R09´s longevity I use R09 from 1989! and it still works. Maybe the times differ from the from the producer original intended, but I´m not even sure about that since I have no comparison with dilutions about 1:150. The R09 I use is open and half full since two years. No blank film ever, it simply works.


@MarcoGiardini

One should think there was no Rodinal in the tank during development, maybe it was pure water or maybe it was fixer, because the film is totally blank. But you said, you directly mixed the Rodinal and stored it a few minutes, before filling it into the development tank with the film. Make an easy test: Mix a small amount of Rodinal 1+25 and try to develop an exposed snipped from the start of any b/w film. If it don´t blackens after 3 minutes then your Rodinal is and was surely dead. If not, then you have the seldom case of a production mistake at the Ilford´s

Don´t care too much about your mistake - it makes you more watchful in the future. And by the way after years without any bigger fault, I recently heavily underdeveloped a film because I weighed one of the raw chemicals for the developer wrongly. Since one week I try to save the negatives by many different chemical ways of manipulating them...

Better luck for the future,
Andreas

 

[verney]

In what order did you mix your chemicals? Maybe you got some stop concentrate into your developer from a dirty measure glass.

 

[RobertV]

you have the seldom case of a production mistake at the Ilford´s

Not with a faint image.

But to be sure: Test your Rodinal with a known combination first before doing something important with it.

About the differences of Rodinal and the old R09:
1+25 - 1+100 , 1+20 - 1+80
R09 produces a bit more grain
The lifetime of R09 is limited.
About the color: When it's new it's already like Coke.

About the film failure: I do not think at this moment we can find out what was wrong.

 

[MarcoGiardini]

well, i have done right now an HP5 film and just developped in the same way.
And i found the mistake. The mistake was NOT the order of the chemicals, but......the quantity of the chemicals!
To develop a 120 film, i need 500 ml solution.
It means 19.3 rodinal and 480.7 of water.
Well.... i guess that 1.93 of rodinal will never be enough! So.....that's the error. I used 1/10 of the rodinal needed
Shame on me....

 

[K-G]

well, i have done right now an HP5 film and just developped in the same way.
And i found the mistake. The mistake was NOT the order of the chemicals, but......the quantity of the chemicals!
To develop a 120 film, i need 500 ml solution.
It means 19.3 rodinal and 480.7 of water.
Well.... i guess that 1.93 of rodinal will never be enough! So.....that's the error. I used 1/10 of the rodinal needed
Shame on me....

Dont feel to bad about it. You are not alone. I did a similar mistake a few years ago. Luckily there was enough developer to produce visible negatives but they were thin. I have filed the experience in the map "learn by mistake not to do critical work when you are tired" . Good luck with your next film.

Karl-Gustaf

 

[MarcoGiardini]

i mainly use D76 and i prepare a big bag at the time. I'm not used to work with rodinal and small containers as rodinal. I know that is not an excuse but at least this the origin of my stupid mistake.

 

[A49]

The lifetime of R09 is limited.

...but it is limited to at least 21 years, if not opened and to two years at least in 19 years old and half full condition.

@MarcoGiardini

You can be happy, that you found your mistake - it´s much harder if you never knew what went wrong.

Andreas