ilford multigrade fb matte...

[danzyc]

how many people use this paper?? i d like to bought a small pack to try....
which developer works well to give a very good black??

thanks

 

[AlanC]

You won't get a good black with it, not as good as with the glossy version of the same paper.

Alan Clark

 

[Bob Carnie]

This is a beautiful paper for bleach sepia and selenium.

 

[Mike Crawford]

As the chaps above say, not a paper to get a strong black but really comes into it's own with toning, especially light bleach followed by thio and caustic soda. The blacks will then appear stronger and colder. Also, unlike warm tone papers, it can give a wide range of browns from a cold, cold brown to yellow brown depending on the mix and dilutions of the toning bath.

 

[erikg]

It is a very nice paper, I use it a lot. Works great with Sprint paper dev., Dektol, Ansco 130. But if it's a really deep black you are going for Alan is right, a glossy surface is what you want. That said, you can get beautiful results with it.

 

[AlanC]

Erikg,
I agree it is a beautiful paper. I like to use it to make large prints from 35mm TriX negatives developed in Rodinal. I photograph old fishermans' huts, and the prints come out like charcoal drawings.

Alan Clark

 

[Jerevan]

If you want black, and like matt paper, try Foma Fomabrom. Exists in both VC and graded variants. I have only tried the VC paper, so I can't say if the graded is good too. However, I like the Ilford paper for soft renditions of landscapes, where it has a pencil or watercolour softness to it.

 

[AlanC]

Jerevan,
Does the fomabrom matt have a deeper black than the Ilford matt?

Alan Clark

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I have used it and got good results. You might also try the glossy verson.

Jeff

 

[Jerevan]

Jerevan,
Does the fomabrom matt have a deeper black than the Ilford matt?

Alan Clark

I see a marked difference, but I have not done any scientific tests. With the same negative, the Foma looks better compared to the Ilford paper. Deeper blacks and more tonal separation in the high values.

 

[Fotoguy20d]

I recently bought a box of the glossy MGIV RC paper and had started using it when I came across an unopened box of the FB that I've probably had for 5 years. The blacks aren't as strong but I think the tones are much nicer. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with all that glossy stuff. I also invested in a print dryer (premier 110) to keep the fiber prints flat. Now to see if the half box of Gallerie that I just came across is still any good. I think the Gallerie fell by the wayside when I discovered the MGFB - much more convenient.

Dan

 

[danzyc]

i have tried fomabrom and i have compared with ilford now.......same photo same negative same developer........foma have a some lack of definition compared to ilford..

 

[Jerevan]

i have tried fomabrom and i have compared with ilford now.......same photo same negative same developer........foma have a some lack of definition compared to ilford..

I am not sure I follow you there, what do you mean? That the Fomabrom lacks definition compared to Ilford? Please explain further.

 

[wiggywag]

I find that Fomabrom requires more increased contrast settings to acheive same results than Ilford VC FB papers. I find Fomabrom to have smoother tones, I like it better than Ilford

 

[Anon Ymous]

I find that Fomabrom requires more increased contrast settings to acheive same results than Ilford VC FB papers. I find Fomabrom to have smoother tones, I like it better than Ilford

That's interesting, because I find Fomabrom somewhat higher in contrast compared to MG IV FB. The same applies for their RC versions and I'm talking about a 2/3 of a grade difference. What kind of safelight do you use, what color?

 

[wiggywag]

That's interesting, because I find Fomabrom somewhat higher in contrast compared to MG IV FB. The same applies for their RC versions and I'm talking about a 2/3 of a grade difference. What kind of safelight do you use, what color?

I use red! I did tests, and found out orange light caused fogging.
Maybe it is the paper developer? I use Fomas LQN.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

how many people use this paper?? i d like to bought a small pack to try....
which developer works well to give a very good black??

thanks

I mistakenly bought a box of 9.5"x12" MG-IV matte paper and opened it before I realised it wasn`t the glossy paper. It`s OK though and I don`t think you will notice the surface if the print is mounted, matted and framed behind glass.

 

[bill schwab]

This is a beautiful paper for bleach sepia and selenium.

What Bob said....

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

AND what Bill said! My favorite paper.

What Bob said....

 

[jglass]

toning MGIV FB Matt

AND what Bill said! My favorite paper.

Bob, Bill, Thomas:

I was going to post a thread on this very question, toning this paper. I toned it for the first time, bleach, sepia, selenium using some suggested times from Bob on another thread. The results I got were VERY subtle. Very little change from the untoned paper. I found that the bleach had very slow and very little effect so that the sepia didn't really "take."

Do you guys use something other than Dektol and rapid fix to develop this paper for toning?

I used the same process on some older Oriental Seagull and the effect was remarkably strong (probably too strong -almost orangey warm). And on Ilford warmtone, the effect was also much stronger.

I'm not looking for anything really strong, but the effect was so subtle on the MGIV matt that I can only tell it's been toned by comparing to a standard untoned print. I like the paper very much though.

Thanks

 

[bill schwab]

Building on your tone is needed to get it where you want. One pass through bleach and tone is not enough. Bleach, rinse, tone, rinse, bleach, etc until you get it where you want. After the first bleaching, the paper becomes much more accepting of the tone, so be careful after the first round or you'll go too far.

Good luck.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I feel the paper takes quite well to toning from the first attempt, but you probably will want to use a non-hardening fixer, like Ilford Hypam.

I use Kodak Sepia II, and bleach in full strength bleach for about 30-60 seconds depending on the intensity I want from the highlights. It really comes alive as I dunk it in selenium at about 1:4 and warm it up to about 80*F.

The point of using this paper is how versatile it is. You can get stern black and white, without any color. Sometimes that looks fantastic! Or you can get an orgy of colors if you just keep trying with it according to Bill's instruction above.
Try printing about one half stop darker than you would for an untoned print, which leaves you more headroom for the bleaching process, so that the highlights come back as vivid when you use the sepia toner.

I have seen silver prints from Keith Taylor, it's his paper of choice as well. He uses a single bleach/toner technique with thiocarbamide toner, and it's hard to find a better printer than him. And trust me when I say there is BLAAAAACK in his prints. Regular Ilford Multigrade developer or Ethol LPD brings out nice deep blacks for me. Solid enough to build a foundation. Of course, split toning with selenium acting on the dark values will increase the intensity of those blacks.

Experiment, experiment, experiment - and have fun!

- Thomas

 

[Anon Ymous]

...I use Kodak Sepia II, and bleach in full strength bleach for about 30-60 seconds depending on the intensity I want from the highlights...

Now that's strange! I don't use Kodak Sepia II, but vI. If I dip a soaked print in full strength bleach for 30-60'', almost nothing happens. And I don't use a hardening fix either (Ilford Rapid).

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

@ Anon Ymous - The selenium usually kickstarts things as well, keep that in mind, but the Sepia II really does change things around quite a bit. Try it out some time (before there is no more, as Kodak just recently obsoleted it). I think the Ilford Rapid fixer is almost identical to Hypam so that is not likely the cause.

- Thomas

 

[bill schwab]

I never use the bleach full strength out of the package. That is testament to the latitude available with this paper. It allows each their own. I use both thiocarbomide and Kodak's Sepia II, but as Thomas points out that has now been discontinued. A home brew is easy enough.